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Why doesn't advice work?

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Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#311

Post by mynameisvlad »

resource_waste wrote: post #299
sqeaky wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on context. If someone just needs the emotional energy to get back into the fight then a compliment is often what is needed. If someone is about to do something imminently that you see a correctable fault with and they don't then pointing it out is likely correct. So many people up here thinking there is always 1 exactly right course of action! Why?! Why do so many otherwise smart people fall back to the sill…

>So many people up here thinking there is always 1 exactly right course of action! Why?! Why do so many otherwise smart people fall back to the silliest of binary thinking and heuristics? What implied it was binary? I think that is your own thoughts.

You did.

> What is better? The person that says "You look beautiful", or "You have a piece of fuzz in your hair?"

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#312

Post by lazide »

tbrownaw wrote: post #255
smeej wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I developed something like this, but it manifests more as "question everything until it makes sense to me. " I feel like I'm constitutionally incapable of taking anybody's word for anything, but it's vastly worse for anyone who reacts with hostility to my questions about points that don't make sense to me. It was very much trained into me by my father that following the advice of those people leads to suffering and p…

> manifests more as "question everything until it makes sense to me." This is called "critical thinking" -- at least when combined with a decent amount of existing topical knowledge to be able to ask good questions -- and is rather useful for all sorts of things.

Sure, when it comes to say, public policy.

It hits a bit different when it’s about where to go for dinner. ;)

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#313

Post by jmpman »

I’ve had just one person who regularly takes my advice, and is wildly successful from it. No idea why this person, my wife’s cousin, takes my advice and no one else does. Almost makes it more frustrating for when I give advice to others, who of course don’t take it.

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#314

Post by nox101 »

humanfromearth9 wrote: post #283
nox101 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My daughter said she's planning on going to try heroin, fentanyl, and meth this weekend with some friends. Should I give her advice?

Instead of giving advice, you may show her what these things do to people, and ask her if that's what she wants in her life. Also show her what hard work, focus and dedication does to successful people.

That sounds like advice to me

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#315

Post by Doxin »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #266
efitz wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> LISTEN TO THEIR ACTUAL PROBLEM ALL THE WAY. This is the key. People want to be heard, and also people don't necessarily divulge detail in the order you expect. The very last thing that they say may completely invalidate the solution you've been building in your mind as they've been speaking. Back in the mid 90's I was working support for Windows NT Server. In my area we had our heavy hitters- the issues that came u…

But it's tech support. There are lots of situations where listening is the priority, and I'm glad you learned something for everyday life, but limiting excess explanation in a minimally rude way is a good thing for tech support. And allowing an extra 5 minutes is more than enough for being minimally rude.

You'd be surprised how many people will contact tech support mainly to complain and view getting their problem fixed as secondary.

Back when I did tech support I spent a lot of time commiserating with people while fixing their problem. Allows people to vent and we all know the need to vent when tech isn't cooperating.

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#316

Post by anonzzzies »

efitz wrote: post #183

Hard lessons I've learned: 1. It doesn't matter what your title is, how much expert education, training, or experience you have, or even what hard lessons that you have learned: you are not an "expert" in an area unless you are invited in as an "expert". Put another way, unsolicited advice is unwelcome. 2. Smart people want to solve their own problems. Don't offer solutions. No one will feel empowered or much of a se…

> It doesn't matter what your title is, how much expert education, training, or experience you have, or even what hard lessons that you have learned: you are not an "expert" in an area unless you are invited in as an "expert".

Not entirely on topic, but this makes 'experts' who have a large social media presence talking about the subject you are interested in far more likely to be invited while they might (and very often don't) know almost nothing about the subject, have no degrees (but often lie that they have) and made up their title(s). This trend is growing in the professional world. The amount of secops 'experts' I meet at companies who know nothing at all about this field besides the very basics they saw in a youtube video is incredible. I recognise them immediately as they talk too much and what they say sounds like hallucinating chatgpt (and I am not a security expert, but it intersects with what we do and need often). When I ask someone in the company (I get into companies via my own company to troubleshoot things, I don't work there, but I see a lot of them) they usually have something like 'but he is THE expert in the field on LinkedIn/Twitter (meaning, many followers and a lot of edgy shouting about the subject) so how can it be bad?'.

Anyway, you only have to watch some Joe Rogan lately to see where that is going quite rapidly. Grifter 'experts' supporting crazy grifters (yes, Terrence for instance) to make them more credible to both sell more grifter crap.

I find it very dangerous and i'm not the only one; non critical people may actually believe what these people peddle; a secops or devops that basically googles/chatgpts everything and comes with a plan cannot be good for the world now can it? If we (my company) need an expert on something, we call the university (of Delft or Amsterdam in our case as they are our alma maters) and ask which industry person with an actual degree and 10+ years industry experience we should ask for advice on xyz. Never failed us in the past 25 years; never had a twitter celeb over I am happy to say.

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#317

Post by borroka »

kerkeslager wrote: post #310
borroka wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Do you want some advice?" sounds too condescending for my taste, both from the giver and the receiver. Having moved to the United States from a European country, I have discovered that there is a particular dance that most people do in the land of the free that takes away authenticity (not to be confused with being rude, impolite or, even worse, "brutal") and inserts a kind of artificial kindness or feigned interest…

> Instead of the ballet of "do you want my advice," it would be better to switch to "I think one of the possible courses of action is," or "I have encountered something similar in the past and, at least in spirit, this is what I found helpful." Strong disagree-- it has to be a question . The entire point of my post is: 1. Ask for consent before giving advice. 2. If they say no, don't give them the advice. This isn't…

"Do you want my advice" = I know how to solve it, but maybe you don't (because you are incompetent, insecure, or not ready to know the "truth") want to solve it and it's okay for you to stay with your problems, your loss, I'm out.

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#318

Post by kerkeslager »

borroka wrote: post #317
kerkeslager wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Instead of the ballet of "do you want my advice," it would be better to switch to "I think one of the possible courses of action is," or "I have encountered something similar in the past and, at least in spirit, this is what I found helpful." Strong disagree-- it has to be a question . The entire point of my post is: 1. Ask for consent before giving advice. 2. If they say no, don't give them the advice. This isn't…

"Do you want my advice" = I know how to solve it, but maybe you don't (because you are incompetent, insecure, or not ready to know the "truth") want to solve it and it's okay for you to stay with your problems, your loss, I'm out.

> "Do you want my advice" = I know how to solve it, but maybe you don't (because you are incompetent, insecure, or not ready to know the "truth") want to solve it and it's okay for you to stay with your problems, your loss, I'm out.

No, that's not what that means.

Sure, some oversensitive people will interpret it that way. That's why I provided two other ways of asking the question. "Do you want my advice?" is okay for a lot of people, though; not everyone is so sensitive they'll take offense to that.

It has to be a question, though. And really, if someone is going to assume you think they're incompetent because you ask if they want advice, you think they won't assume you'll think they're incompetent when you say, "I think one of the possible courses of action is..."?

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#319

Post by [deleted] »

meken wrote: post #140
throwawayq3423 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Never tell someone what they should do, tell them what you would do in that situation. This is great. It's empathetic and much more likely to be heard and received.

I often find myself taking this approach, but it’s still manipulative because it’s just me masking the fact that I’m really just trying to tell them what to do.

[deleted]

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#320

Post by ryanmcbride »

bawolff wrote: post #239
meken wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I often find myself taking this approach, but it’s still manipulative because it’s just me masking the fact that I’m really just trying to tell them what to do.

There is a big difference between giving advice and giving orders. If you are (e.g.) someone's manager, and you need them to do X, then you should say that. There is nothing worse than being unsure if something is a suggestion or a mandatory "suggestion".

Absolutely, advice isn't the same as instruction. Totally different set of rules.
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