Earlier quoted context omitted.
> So many people up here thinking there is always 1 exactly right course of action! Why?! Why do so many otherwise smart people fall back to the silliest of binary thinking and heuristics? I was one of those. I know the answer: I wasn't/I'm not that intelligent. I learnt that being technically right is not as important as I thought (and I also learnt to care less about it specially when I'm surrounded by other techni…
> I learnt that being technically right is not as important as I thought Only in discussions, whenever you do anything being right is the most important thing as doing the wrong thing is just contra productive, being right saves a massive amount of time and work.
Why doesn't advice work?
181–190 of 334 posts
Re: Why doesn't advice work?
#182> And for producers of advice: Step 0 I think should be "maybe don't give advice". You want to help, you think you're really good, you think it will improve things, but that's not how other people see it. They may seem like they need advice or seem like they are asking for it between the lines, but they just really want to unload or chit chat, or share some difficulty. The answer to that is sometimes to listen and no…
Re: Why doesn't advice work?
#1831. It doesn't matter what your title is, how much expert education, training, or experience you have, or even what hard lessons that you have learned: you are not an "expert" in an area unless you are invited in as an "expert". Put another way, unsolicited advice is unwelcome.
2. Smart people want to solve their own problems. Don't offer solutions. No one will feel empowered or much of a sense of accomplishment implementing your solution. Instead tell them the challenges that they will face for various options and let them draw their own conclusions.
3. Your spouse just wants to vent, UNLESS they say "fix it" in which case they want you to fix it, where "fix" means "make it act like I want it to". Your spouse does not want to know how it works so that they can fix it themselves next time, and their mental model is wrong and they don't care to correct it. Just listen, figure out what they want and do it yourself, and do it again next time even though it interrupted you and they could have fixed it themself.
Re: Why doesn't advice work?
#184Research shows people are much more likely to follow advice if they pay for it:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/222563639_Do_We_Lis...
Re: Why doesn't advice work?
#185And that's why I'd add to everything that's been said another pattern on why people don't listen to my advice: because I'm not rich.
Instead of considering that some knowledge is domain-specific, I've seen a trend in people valuing halo-style anything said by someone that's much more financially successful then them, regardless if this matters with the problem at hand. I'm not sure if this is something that's increased recently, just my anecdotal observation.
Re: Why doesn't advice work?
#186Could be because the people around me are part of the topic (e.g. relationship problems), or they don't know the domain well or maybe it's not something I'm comfortable sharing with friends.
I keep thinking if this is a form of "social networking" that can be of benefit / some form of social good. Connecting people that have knowledge / wisdom in some particular aspect of life (I'm particularly biased towards the elderly, lots of life experience), but also more (hopefully) objective (they don't know you). Tinder for advise?
Re: Why doesn't advice work?
#187I was waiting for this angle. In my experience, at this point in my life, I've come to entertain the idea that humans are similar only on a surface level. We're genetically made of the same stuff, but our values, biases, even the basic axioms upon which each of us operates are vastly different. I've often felt that most people waste too many words to transfer a concept from their head into the heads of other people, preferring instead an abrupt, dry communication style to save time and energy and working off of the assumption that there's a vast, common emotional and intellectual knowledge base between humans. But I'm wrong and they're right. Use many words. Communicating ideas between humans is a craft and an art form. It's really difficult.
Re: Why doesn't advice work?
#188Advice is useless. You don't have the context, or theories (see programming/everything as theory building) to make a good decision for someone else. The only thing that works is sharing truth. When you don't know what else to do except share advice, make sure you spend a lot of time explaining the truths behind it.
People that 'give' advice will most likely take no part in the implementation of the 'advice', so they get zero blowback for being wrong or advising the wrong thing, and wouldn't think twice before giving it. (no skin in the game)
Worst of all, most advice is given unprompted and is somebody just expanding his ego with his own bullshit. Advice is not in short supply. And I don't want to hear it (barring few rare exceptions)
I can't recall the last time I had gotten good advice, other than unprompted criticism and naysayer sentiments.
And the only good advice I've ever gotten is from people that I have gone out of my way and reached out to because of their demonstrated and undeniable expertise on whatever the subject might be.
Re: Why doesn't advice work?
#189The rules I have for myself when giving advice are: 1. Unsolicited advice is always criticism. 2. LISTEN TO THEIR ACTUAL PROBLEM ALL THE WAY. 3. Never tell someone what they should do, tell them what you would do in that situation. 4. Remember that the purpose of giving advice is just to illuminate options, not to have someone follow what you recommend to the letter. 5. As the advice giver understand that you could b…
This is the key. People want to be heard, and also people don't necessarily divulge detail in the order you expect. The very last thing that they say may completely invalidate the solution you've been building in your mind as they've been speaking.
Back in the mid 90's I was working support for Windows NT Server. In my area we had our heavy hitters- the issues that came up several times a week- and we all knew them inside out. One day a paying support customer called and within 30 seconds of him starting to talk, I knew exactly what the problem was. I let him talk but after 5 minutes I was getting bored of minesweeper and thought maybe he'd appreciate me fixing his issue. I interrupted him and say, "hey, let's try this". Sure enough, within 2 minutes his issue was fixed. We ended the call politely and I congratulated myself on getting him to relief so quickly.
A couple weeks later we got our support survey results for the month. That customer had been surveyed and was nice enough to write something other than just give a star rating or whatever. I will never forget what he wrote:
"I don't feel like the engineer listened to me before he solved my problem."
That was a lot to unpack at the time- at first I was frustrated because he didn't give me a top score when I knocked it out of the park in my own estimation, but after a lot of reflection I've taken that lesson to heart. That person's short comment made me a better person, certainly better at support but more empathic in general, and I owe them a debt that I can't repay but will pay forward.