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Kogan imposes a tax on IE7 shoppers

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Re: Kogan imposes a tax on IE7 shoppers

#121

Post by marshray »

chris_wot wrote: post #87
_wp3r wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe not for Kogan, but most of the DOD is still on IE6, as an example that is something like 2 million daily users. Uber large business and government is were the users are hiding. The reason the numbers are still off is because those same users are using chrome at there house in the evening. There should be a business only metric for browser usage. That would be very interesting.

I would imagine the proportion of DOD users going to an Australia electronics shopping site would be 0.0000000001% of Kogan's total user base.

I suspect your estimate is off by a few orders of magnitude. Unless Kogan's user base is larger than the total population of Earth (I know you're out there), then even one of them from the DoD would represent 0.000000014%.

Re: Kogan imposes a tax on IE7 shoppers

#122

Post by talmand »

esbwhat wrote: post #91
DanBC wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bob sells software. To run that software Ann needs X, Y, and Z. When Bob tells Ann that she must have X, Y, and Z to run the software he is giving her important information. When Bob tells Ann (who is blind, or deaf, or has a motor-control disability (or just likes the software she uses), but who also buys the software her engineers use) that she cannot get information about the product that he sells because she uses…

This all sounds nice and reasonable, until you realize that these companies have to pay people to actually make it work in a browser that's 10 years old. Their website is a product, and they can choose who to offer it to. This is like complaining that this android app won't work on your 10 year old dumbphone. Yes, it sucks that some screen reading software depends on outdated browsers, but the fault lies at the manuf…

"IE7 doesn't work, even for simple layouts, it doesn't work."

What in the world are you talking about?

Re: Kogan imposes a tax on IE7 shoppers

#123

Post by TheCount »

_wp3r wrote: post #32
ceol wrote: post #12

I doubt their userbase using IE7 is large enough for this to be a big deal. This tax's real goal is PR for Kogan.

Maybe not for Kogan, but most of the DOD is still on IE6, as an example that is something like 2 million daily users. Uber large business and government is were the users are hiding. The reason the numbers are still off is because those same users are using chrome at there house in the evening. There should be a business only metric for browser usage. That would be very interesting.

>most of the DOD is still on IE6, as an example that is something like 2 million daily users.

Do you have any evidence for that? From what I've seen, which is admittedly not comprehensive, this is false.

Re: Kogan imposes a tax on IE7 shoppers

#124

Post by kamjam »

MrVitaliy wrote: post #44
_wp3r wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe not for Kogan, but most of the DOD is still on IE6, as an example that is something like 2 million daily users. Uber large business and government is were the users are hiding. The reason the numbers are still off is because those same users are using chrome at there house in the evening. There should be a business only metric for browser usage. That would be very interesting.

> Maybe not for Kogan, but most of the DOD is still on IE6, as an example that is something like 2 million daily users. With each passing day, this statement made less and less sense to a point of absurd. And that point has been reached a long time ago. I work for Department of Interior (the armpit when compared to DOD) and here its either fully patched IE8, latest Firefox or you are booted off of network. Can DOD be…

I'm working on a project for a major bank here in the UK, one of the requirements of IE6 and no Javascript. Seriously. It's anal. But it's how their system runs internally, so for management to be able to "test" the new site it needs to work in IE6.

What I don't understand is the bank should be promoting use of latest technology. If your online account was robbed of all it's money and they found out yuo are using IE6 (with all its security flaws) what's the likelihood they try to say it was your own fault?

Re: Kogan imposes a tax on IE7 shoppers

#125

Post by seanp2k2 »

pwaring wrote: post #79
_wp3r wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe not for Kogan, but most of the DOD is still on IE6, as an example that is something like 2 million daily users. Uber large business and government is were the users are hiding. The reason the numbers are still off is because those same users are using chrome at there house in the evening. There should be a business only metric for browser usage. That would be very interesting.

It's not just large businesses. About 1/3 of our users use IE7, although thankfully there's hardly anyone still on IE6. About 1/2 are still on XP (NT 5.1). Some of these are small companies with <10 employees.

Don't forget third-world countries that largely rely on XP. IIRC as of about a year ago, a double-digit percentage of asia was still on XP.

Re: Kogan imposes a tax on IE7 shoppers

#126

Post by kamjam »

talmand wrote: post #122
esbwhat wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This all sounds nice and reasonable, until you realize that these companies have to pay people to actually make it work in a browser that's 10 years old. Their website is a product, and they can choose who to offer it to. This is like complaining that this android app won't work on your 10 year old dumbphone. Yes, it sucks that some screen reading software depends on outdated browsers, but the fault lies at the manuf…

"IE7 doesn't work, even for simple layouts, it doesn't work." What in the world are you talking about?

From this I get 1. A server side developer (C#/Java/PHP/Whatever) trying to be a HTML designer 2. A n00b HTML designer that's not been around long enough to know the different IE box models and workarounds needed.

I'd guess 2. You can get most layouts to work in IE7, and with a lot of effort, IE6 even. Agree on the security aspect, but bear in mind that the majority of home users probably have Windows Auto Updates on so they should be running IE8 (I know IE7 was a forced update for XP users, not sure if IE8 is...) So that means either a user has turned off auto updates, OR mroe likely it is a business with policies in place.

There's nothing on that lexity site (at least from the demo) that couldn't be coded to work in IE7 with an conditional css include.

Re: Kogan imposes a tax on IE7 shoppers

#127

Post by seanp2k2 »

esbwhat wrote: post #91
DanBC wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bob sells software. To run that software Ann needs X, Y, and Z. When Bob tells Ann that she must have X, Y, and Z to run the software he is giving her important information. When Bob tells Ann (who is blind, or deaf, or has a motor-control disability (or just likes the software she uses), but who also buys the software her engineers use) that she cannot get information about the product that he sells because she uses…

This all sounds nice and reasonable, until you realize that these companies have to pay people to actually make it work in a browser that's 10 years old. Their website is a product, and they can choose who to offer it to. This is like complaining that this android app won't work on your 10 year old dumbphone. Yes, it sucks that some screen reading software depends on outdated browsers, but the fault lies at the manuf…

Solution: help create better free, open-source accessibility software. This is my goal.

Re: Kogan imposes a tax on IE7 shoppers

#128

Post by kamjam »

esbwhat wrote: post #91
DanBC wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bob sells software. To run that software Ann needs X, Y, and Z. When Bob tells Ann that she must have X, Y, and Z to run the software he is giving her important information. When Bob tells Ann (who is blind, or deaf, or has a motor-control disability (or just likes the software she uses), but who also buys the software her engineers use) that she cannot get information about the product that he sells because she uses…

This all sounds nice and reasonable, until you realize that these companies have to pay people to actually make it work in a browser that's 10 years old. Their website is a product, and they can choose who to offer it to. This is like complaining that this android app won't work on your 10 year old dumbphone. Yes, it sucks that some screen reading software depends on outdated browsers, but the fault lies at the manuf…

Have you gone to the site in question? I agree with DanBC, however I don't expect you to fully support all users if you don't want to, that's your perogative, you know your customer base better that we do so it's for you to decide what browsers and technology set you want to support.

I think what DanBC is saying is if you are not going to support something, then tell the user why and they need. The user gets redirected to http://lexity.com/aiee.html which if you visit in IE6 or 7 puts you in an infinite loop... works fine in browsers that actually the site actually supports, kinda ironic.

Re: Kogan imposes a tax on IE7 shoppers

#129

Post by kamjam »

nasmorn wrote: post #82
TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. Most people using IE7 probably didn't choose it, their IT department chose for them.

True but if there was some department disabling people, we would look very differently at disabilities I guess.

I've seen many banks that have legacy systems what ONLY work in IE6, so they can't upgrade until they apps are re-written, but those apps are so big they don't want to touch it or they have some longer term project to replace this, blah blah. Some crap littered with ActiveX plugins no doubt. I know HSBC have (what appears to me anyway) to be like this.

But yes, agree the work/personal related thing, they can easily buy at home and if the workplace has such an antiquated attitude to these things then they probably also have your internet access to watch and lock down anyway.

Re: Kogan imposes a tax on IE7 shoppers

#130

Post by RandallBrown »

mayneack wrote: post #43
hammock wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another (and more realistic) analogy would be a retailer adding a surcharge to your total when paying by credit card.

That's illegal in most states/violates all credit card agreements for the vendor. (but still a valid comparison)

But places can just offer s "cash discount" and it ends up being exactly the same. All the gas stations around me charge 10 cents more for credit cards and it's infuriating.
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