Why doesn't advice work? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#261

Post by iLoveOncall » Wed, Jul 31, 2024, 1:12 AM UTC

efitz wrote: post #183

Hard lessons I've learned: 1. It doesn't matter what your title is, how much expert education, training, or experience you have, or even what hard lessons that you have learned: you are not an "expert" in an area unless you are invited in as an "expert". Put another way, unsolicited advice is unwelcome. 2. Smart people want to solve their own problems. Don't offer solutions. No one will feel empowered or much of a se…

> 2. Smart people want to solve their own problems. Don't offer solutions. No one will feel empowered or much of a sense of accomplishment implementing your solution. Instead tell them the challenges that they will face for various options and let them draw their own conclusions.

Replace "smart" by "dumb" and I'll agree. You're not smart if you reject spoon-fed solutions purely for ego-related reasons.

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#262

Post by Aeolun » Wed, Jul 31, 2024, 1:15 AM UTC

Because if people earnestly give you terrible advice 90% of the time you come to realize that it’s a safer proposition to just disregard all of it.

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#263

Post by jrvarela56 » Wed, Jul 31, 2024, 1:19 AM UTC

Advice is “useless” in the same sense that reading a book is useless.

You are receiving compressed knowledge while your capacity to accomplish goals is iterated through more complex experiences.

Like reading, advice needs to be unpacked, put into practice, reinterpreted, tweaked - to the point that whatever inputs came as words are now a network of ideas/experiences/memories/tricks.

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#264

Post by shiroiushi » Wed, Jul 31, 2024, 1:27 AM UTC

mihaic wrote: post #185

I've given a bunch of advice in my life, some was useful, some missed the mark, and over time after learning to listen to people, I think I've gotten reasonably good at it. And that's why I'd add to everything that's been said another pattern on why people don't listen to my advice: because I'm not rich. Instead of considering that some knowledge is domain-specific, I've seen a trend in people valuing halo-style anyt…

I suspect this is something that's much more prevalent in American culture, since it worships financial wealth so much.

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#265

Post by dwoldrich » Wed, Jul 31, 2024, 1:28 AM UTC

Seems to me if you're an advice-giver and you want to have an impact, be a mentor and come alongside your mentee.

If they should try yoga, and you are certain it would help them, pay for 6 months of membership at the gym for them, show up at their house every morning at 5am to pick them up for class, and do the darn yoga with them.

Sorry to be a grump, but one has to make a personal project out of people to get them to benefit from advice that they hadn't already decided to follow.

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#266

Post by Dylan16807 » Wed, Jul 31, 2024, 1:52 AM UTC

efitz wrote: post #189

ryanmcbride wrote: post #98

The rules I have for myself when giving advice are: 1. Unsolicited advice is always criticism. 2. LISTEN TO THEIR ACTUAL PROBLEM ALL THE WAY. 3. Never tell someone what they should do, tell them what you would do in that situation. 4. Remember that the purpose of giving advice is just to illuminate options, not to have someone follow what you recommend to the letter. 5. As the advice giver understand that you could b…

> LISTEN TO THEIR ACTUAL PROBLEM ALL THE WAY. This is the key. People want to be heard, and also people don't necessarily divulge detail in the order you expect. The very last thing that they say may completely invalidate the solution you've been building in your mind as they've been speaking. Back in the mid 90's I was working support for Windows NT Server. In my area we had our heavy hitters- the issues that came u…

But it's tech support.

There are lots of situations where listening is the priority, and I'm glad you learned something for everyday life, but limiting excess explanation in a minimally rude way is a good thing for tech support. And allowing an extra 5 minutes is more than enough for being minimally rude.

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#267

Post by Vampiero » Wed, Jul 31, 2024, 1:56 AM UTC

cladopa wrote: post #141

Not everyone can give good advice, but there is people out there that can. In my opinion, the best advisers are those that understand people's personalities and adapt for them. Most people out there do not like thinking, but some people think A LOT, even too much. You can not give the same advice to both groups: "Think before you act" only will work with the first group. It will be just wrong for the second. "Act imp…

> "Act impulsivelly without thinking" will be much better, because they will think too much by default.

But the telltale signs of ADHD are a hyperactive mind AND an acute impulsivity. Overthinking goes hand in hand with being impulsive, probably because it's harder to tell the right thoughts apart from the wrong ones since they're all mixed together. There's a threshold after which you just go with whatever your current thought is, because you're so tired from analyzing all the possibilities.

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#268

Post by satisfice » Wed, Jul 31, 2024, 2:17 AM UTC

When I read a functionally anonymous blog, I find I can’t trust anything in it.

I know I can’t be the only one who feels this way. An anonymous blog is like food found in the street.

I half expect every anonymous blog to be revealed as a Dow Chemical marketing experiment.

I liked what this “guy” had to say in this piece about advice. I would have subscribed if he were an identifiable person.

My name is James Bach, and I wrote this comment.

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#269

Post by satisfice » Wed, Jul 31, 2024, 2:20 AM UTC

efitz wrote: post #183

Hard lessons I've learned: 1. It doesn't matter what your title is, how much expert education, training, or experience you have, or even what hard lessons that you have learned: you are not an "expert" in an area unless you are invited in as an "expert". Put another way, unsolicited advice is unwelcome. 2. Smart people want to solve their own problems. Don't offer solutions. No one will feel empowered or much of a se…

The opposite of this may be true.

1. If you are a doctor seeing another person give dangerous medical advice, it may be your civic and moral responsibility to intervene.

2. I’m smart and I have a lot of problems. Only some of them are interesting challenges (math problems… no hints!). The rest I don’t care about.

3. The only time my wife complains is when she wants a solution. Because she thinks complaining for no reason is for lazy people.

You can recast all your lessons learned in the form of dynamics instead of lessons, that’s what the author of the post did. Example: “I find it easier to learn from people when they speak of their beliefs in terms of structures and variables and forces.” That’s a true statement about me. That’s me hoping to help you without “giving advice.”

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#270

Post by efitz » Wed, Jul 31, 2024, 2:22 AM UTC

twelve40 wrote: post #211

efitz wrote: post #183

Hard lessons I've learned: 1. It doesn't matter what your title is, how much expert education, training, or experience you have, or even what hard lessons that you have learned: you are not an "expert" in an area unless you are invited in as an "expert". Put another way, unsolicited advice is unwelcome. 2. Smart people want to solve their own problems. Don't offer solutions. No one will feel empowered or much of a se…

Lesson I learned from this comment: you can dish out as much of heavy-handed advice as your heart desires, as long as you preface it with the phrase "things i've learned"

Yes I did not miss the irony :-)