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Why doesn't advice work?

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Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#151

Post by nox101 »

rdtsc wrote: post #19

> And for producers of advice: Step 0 I think should be "maybe don't give advice". You want to help, you think you're really good, you think it will improve things, but that's not how other people see it. They may seem like they need advice or seem like they are asking for it between the lines, but they just really want to unload or chit chat, or share some difficulty. The answer to that is sometimes to listen and no…

My daughter said she's planning on going to try heroin, fentanyl, and meth this weekend with some friends. Should I give her advice?

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#152

Post by lazide »

kayodelycaon wrote: post #147
graybeardhacker wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't go read about Oppositional Defiance Disorder.

ODD has some really questionable aspects. Especially considering half of children diagnosed with it are also ADHD. I highly suspect the issue is more with the authority figures not knowing how to handle neurodivergence than the children themselves. Many people tend to do the opposite of what they are told to do. In an individualist culture, this is normal.

A step back - I’d consider the possibility too that it’s a learned behavior where they have received enough pain in the past doing what they were told, so literally have been conditioned to do the opposite of what they were told.

And/or, never got attention or positive feedback when doing what they were told - but got lots of attention when they did what they were told not to do. Not necessarily positive, but something is better than nothing.

Which isn’t necessarily at odds with what you’re saying.

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#153

Post by Joel_Mckay »

Anchoring bias is the core of most poor decision making. For example, someone that publishes a poorly generated webpage using mostly llm/chatGPT. Assuming algorithms won't flag the farmed slop content, and drop it to page 87 of future search results.

One could appeal to the publishers better nature, confront the shenanigans, or recommend a fiscally advantageous posture. Yet, after all is said and done... the appeal of duping people will hijack the commonsense region in some peoples brains.

Anecdotally, I have observed people tend to double-down on mistakes, especially when their ego is involved in that decision process.

What was truly amazing is the level of engagement well structured nonsense can solicit. =3

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#154

Post by sqeaky »

dakiol wrote: post #123
sqeaky wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on context. If someone just needs the emotional energy to get back into the fight then a compliment is often what is needed. If someone is about to do something imminently that you see a correctable fault with and they don't then pointing it out is likely correct. So many people up here thinking there is always 1 exactly right course of action! Why?! Why do so many otherwise smart people fall back to the sill…

> So many people up here thinking there is always 1 exactly right course of action! Why?! Why do so many otherwise smart people fall back to the silliest of binary thinking and heuristics? I was one of those. I know the answer: I wasn't/I'm not that intelligent. I learnt that being technically right is not as important as I thought (and I also learnt to care less about it specially when I'm surrounded by other techni…

Reflection is a form of intelligence. Being able to acknowledge you were once wrong is not a skill everyone has (and being technically correct is a super important part of being smart at least in tech). I hope you see how smart you are and keep getting smarter.

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#156

Post by cladopa »

d--b wrote: post #131

I can’t relate to neither the article nor the comments here. I ask and follow people’s advice all the time, and people ask and follow my advice all the time. I need a new car? I’ll ask to the guy-I-know-who-knows-about-cars. My in-laws want a new computer? I’ll happily tell them about the pros and cons of computer x and y. At work, everyone asks everyone what they think is the best course of action. And somehow it ha…

I also had really great experience with advisers. For example, when I was young, I was tall and athletic but very bad with the women that I wanted to date, so I just looked for people that were good with women and started going out with them and asking advice.

Probably the advice they gave was not that good because they were naturals at what they did and did not understood what they did well. But doing what they did and comparing it with what I did before was extremely useful and my life changed radically.

I have repeated the process so many times in my life with different groups of people: If I wanted to sell well or make more money I went and hanged out with exceptional sellers and understood their thinking and then I started selling well as well.

What happens with lots of people is they tend to despise or envy those that are better than them, specially in socialist countries where envy is celebrated and sometimes imposed as a philosophy of life(I have lived in socialist countries). If you envy the man that is better with women that you are, it will be impossible for you to learn anything from him. You will always find a way to justify that you are right and the System is wrong and unfair and the System should be corrected for them so they don't need to change anything.

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#157

Post by radus »

meken wrote: post #140
throwawayq3423 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Never tell someone what they should do, tell them what you would do in that situation. This is great. It's empathetic and much more likely to be heard and received.

I often find myself taking this approach, but it’s still manipulative because it’s just me masking the fact that I’m really just trying to tell them what to do.

I guess then you've got to abstract one level further and formulate your advice as an allegory.

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#158

Post by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF »

meken wrote: post #140
throwawayq3423 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Never tell someone what they should do, tell them what you would do in that situation. This is great. It's empathetic and much more likely to be heard and received.

I often find myself taking this approach, but it’s still manipulative because it’s just me masking the fact that I’m really just trying to tell them what to do.

> just trying to tell them what to do

If they disregard your advice and you don't criticize them for it, you are absolutely not telling them what to do. For what it's worth.

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#159

Post by rdtsc »

nox101 wrote: post #151
rdtsc wrote: post #19

> And for producers of advice: Step 0 I think should be "maybe don't give advice". You want to help, you think you're really good, you think it will improve things, but that's not how other people see it. They may seem like they need advice or seem like they are asking for it between the lines, but they just really want to unload or chit chat, or share some difficulty. The answer to that is sometimes to listen and no…

My daughter said she's planning on going to try heroin, fentanyl, and meth this weekend with some friends. Should I give her advice?

If you're reading and asking HN to find out, it may already be too late ;-)

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#160

Post by paulcole »

1. Most advice is terrible

2. Most people don’t know much about most things

3. It’s hard to tell good advice from the bad advice — and usually you can only see it in hindsight

4. Most people don’t want advice

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