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More delays for Euston's HS2 station

ianvisits.co.uk

71–80 of 143 posts

Re: More delays for Euston's HS2 station

#71
post #42

I dont understand how HS2 is not the number 1 priority to link the dying cities of the north to london, its important to have good communications, its such a tiny island anyway. Get a grip, and make the line extend to the northern territories, that was literally the whole point.

Note: even though the article is from an .co.uk and talks about the UK government, when English people talk about the “north” they implicitly mean “north of England”, not the north of the UK, even when talking in the context of the UK.

This comment even talks about the “island”, but is implicitly talking about the centre of the island when referring to the “north”.

Re: More delays for Euston's HS2 station

#72
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice attack there, if a little ignorant. The only people being forced of the road are the under-privileged, those who can't afford electric vehicles by ULEZ, those who can't afford maintenance with poor roads, skyrocketing insurance, high fuel prices, ever increasing taxes, unfair parking charges for those using polluting Diesels who we encouraged and subsidised to buy them a few short years ago, and those who rely o…

ULEZ is a London specific thing where you have already admitted there are great alternative transport options.

It's not though, it also affects those who live anywhere within the M25, which would be generous to call "London", particularly the more neglected parts, in public transport terms in the south and south-east.

Re: More delays for Euston's HS2 station

#73
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was never a 'war on drivers' - just empty rhetoric that Sunak clung on to after the Uxbridge by-election.

You just have to look at the state of transport for those outside of London, even within the M25 to see this has nothing to do with rhetoric. Sure "war on drivers" may be the wrong phrase, but there is nothing being done to encourage those who are not privileged, or live in London where transport is excellent, to use alternative means. ULEZ, high insurance, fuel, tax, neglect of infrastructure, unfair parking charges…

What you're describing isn't a war on drivers just poor infrastructure and bad decisions. For all these issues no alternatives have been made no ones benefiting.

Re: More delays for Euston's HS2 station

#74
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ULEZ is a London specific thing where you have already admitted there are great alternative transport options.

It's not though, it also affects those who live anywhere within the M25, which would be generous to call "London", particularly the more neglected parts, in public transport terms in the south and south-east.

What parts are you talking about? Most areas in the m25 is part of a London Borough. Watford isn't but has decent rail connections and has tfl bus routes ending there.

There are some parts of rural Enfield and Barnet which aren't so great for public transport connections admittedly.

Re: More delays for Euston's HS2 station

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice attack there, if a little ignorant. The only people being forced of the road are the under-privileged, those who can't afford electric vehicles by ULEZ, those who can't afford maintenance with poor roads, skyrocketing insurance, high fuel prices, ever increasing taxes, unfair parking charges for those using polluting Diesels who we encouraged and subsidised to buy them a few short years ago, and those who rely o…

>>those who can't afford electric vehicles by ULEZ I wonder if you're doing this on purpose, or if you are genuienly unaware of ULEZ compliance conditions? ULEZ only requires your car to be Euro 4 compliant for petrol cars, and Euro 6 for diesels. Most(if not all) petrol cars that are younger than 20 years old are Euro 4 compliant, and any diesel made in the last 10 years should be Euro 6 compliant too. You are makin…

> I wonder if you're doing this on purpose, or if you are genuienly unaware of ULEZ compliance conditions?

I'm well aware; I picked the extreme condition (EV) to make my point, bit naughty, I'm sorry, but sure, a Euro 6 vehicle can still cost you £10k if you want something clean and that isn't going to immediately be a maintenance burden, heck, let's say £5k, £3k, £1k? The older/cheaper you're going, the more you're subjecting yourself to in maintenance costs, and higher road tax, so let's say they opt for something about to enter MOT-requirements, 3 years, by scrapping an existing junk-car, one which they only have because they can't afford a better one, we're easily talking thousands of pounds.

I assume these people aren't driving old, non-compliant cars because they can afford a better one and just choose not to.

> Well, you can't reverse decisions from the past - you can only improve on them.

Fair, I can't argue with that, but I hope you can see how that might be quite aggravating for someone who bought into it at that time, whose vehicle is now non-compliant because of its age, and perhaps can't afford to replace it.

> its impact on pollution within London is undeniable

I agree, for London, but ULEZ doesn't just affect London, it affects much of the area within the M25 now, much of which is poorly connected or subject to appalling rail operators, they're treated the same way as those living within central areas and there's nothing "equality" about that. I'm not sure if it was yourself or another commenter who mentioned NIMBYs, and I know a lot of the reasons parts particularly south of the river are poorly connected is due to NIMBYism, but this whole discussion is over not worrying about the feelings or well-being of minorities; if it was for the greater good, it should have just been done. Were people not forced out of there homes for HS2? Look where that got us.

> I wish every single city in the UK had a ULEZ zone.

I wish every city in the UK was as well connected as London, then it would be reasonable and fair to have a ULEZ in them.

> Their own numbers about increased cost of repairs doesn't line up with the increases in premiums across the board, it's all a scam

Hear hear.

> Fuel prices have been going down every year, even if the price of fuel has increased in absolute terms. Thank inflation for that one

Yes, alone the affects due to inflation are (perhaps) unavoidable, but it's another expense, and even if you _could_ afford an EV let's say instead, the prices to charge away from home (or if there's no possible way for you to charge at home), are ridiculous anyway. Let's also not forget greed and record profits.

Back to the original commenters point, and mine, to which you replied; this isn't about privilege at all, I'm privileged, I can afford to run a car or two, buy an EV etc, have a leisure vehicle, I (we?) are the ones _not_ negatively affected by any of this, it's easy for us to sit here and say, this is better for everyone, but in the ham-fisted way it has been handled, while billions in public funds have been wasted on the likes of HS2, while not delivering, and pocketed by the privileged, in times were we're talking about a "cost of living crisis" is not.

I think being _able_ to prioritise the environment, one's health, the greater good etc is itself a privilege, and being able to be ignorant of that is too (I'm not suggesting you are; just making a general comment).

Re: More delays for Euston's HS2 station

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just have to look at the state of transport for those outside of London, even within the M25 to see this has nothing to do with rhetoric. Sure "war on drivers" may be the wrong phrase, but there is nothing being done to encourage those who are not privileged, or live in London where transport is excellent, to use alternative means. ULEZ, high insurance, fuel, tax, neglect of infrastructure, unfair parking charges…

What you're describing isn't a war on drivers just poor infrastructure and bad decisions. For all these issues no alternatives have been made no ones benefiting.

I've already pointed out that may have been the wrong phrase, but, I'm not suggesting anyone's winning, but plenty are losing by stupid decisions consistently being made, that disproportionately affect the under-privileged.

I'm not talking about drivers vs cyclists, or whatever, I'm talking about people who _need_ to drive for their livelihood; it shouldn't be reserved for those of us who can afford the annual insurance increases, nice new or electric cars and what-not, UNLESS something is being done to replace the need to drive, and it just isn't.

I'm not pro-driving and drivers, I'm pro not making stupid moves from a position of privilege while others are left in the dirt. "War on drivers" was just the catch-phrase that came to mind, and I failed to elaborate my point, that was my mistake, but it seems everyone has latched onto those three words and missed the forest for the trees, or just made some other assumption like I'm hating on cyclists or something that is sometimes associated with that phrase.

Re: More delays for Euston's HS2 station

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not though, it also affects those who live anywhere within the M25, which would be generous to call "London", particularly the more neglected parts, in public transport terms in the south and south-east.

What parts are you talking about? Most areas in the m25 is part of a London Borough. Watford isn't but has decent rail connections and has tfl bus routes ending there. There are some parts of rural Enfield and Barnet which aren't so great for public transport connections admittedly.

I mean, pick basically anywhere east of centre, or anywhere served by Southern or Southeastern, some of the worst rail operators, or anywhere more than ~20 minutes walk from a station. Being a London borough doesn't mean much in some parts, other than being subject to the will of London, despite a very different landscape.

Re: More delays for Euston's HS2 station

#78
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>war on drivers I guess it's true what they say: for those accustomed to privilege, equality is aggression.

Nice attack there, if a little ignorant. The only people being forced of the road are the under-privileged, those who can't afford electric vehicles by ULEZ, those who can't afford maintenance with poor roads, skyrocketing insurance, high fuel prices, ever increasing taxes, unfair parking charges for those using polluting Diesels who we encouraged and subsidised to buy them a few short years ago, and those who rely o…

>attack

Damn, what a way to prove my point! Even opinions in an online forum are "attack" :)

The simple fact is that

(1) Drivers are subsidised by the state and by all of us, directly through such freebies as road construction and maintenance (which is horrendously expensive) and indirectly through such nice externalities that society must bear, such as the tens of thousands of deaths yearly (2-3 million worldwide) from crashes, pollution, etc.

(2) Driving is the mode of transportation that is taken as default and that everything else must bow to: roads are first-class, then sidewalks, bus stops, cycle "lanes", etc, are an afterthought that must bend to the car traffic space, if they exist at all

(3) Past a certain density it's literally physically impossible that people move around in automobiles

Look I don't want to "defund roads", I'd already be happy if a tiny fraction of the money and attention that goes to driving would be devoted to other forms of transport.

Re: More delays for Euston's HS2 station

#79
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ULEZ is a London specific thing where you have already admitted there are great alternative transport options.

It's not though, it also affects those who live anywhere within the M25, which would be generous to call "London", particularly the more neglected parts, in public transport terms in the south and south-east.

So your conclusion is not "we should invest in transit to those neglected areas", it's "let's subsidise driving everywhere". Interesting.

Re: More delays for Euston's HS2 station

#80
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It’s not insane if your desired outcome is to stir up hatred against immigrants" That sort-of violates the principle that you don't attribute to malice what can be explained by plain incompetence. People who really dislike immigrants won't vote Tory anyway, Reform UK is there to catch their vote (and sink the Tories in the process of doing so). Most of the immigration influx is legal anyway, not boat travellers.

You're assuming that it's malice, when it can be interpreted as incompetence. Incompetence in not figuring out the long term consequences of campaign-time actions. So you campaign with hatred against immigrants because it's cheap. You campaign about how they use the dimnishing services. You campaing on cutting benefits to pander to "fiscal conservatives" and business that would like lower costs. You open immigration…

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