I dont understand how HS2 is not the number 1 priority to link the dying cities of the north to london, its important to have good communications, its such a tiny island anyway. Get a grip, and make the line extend to the northern territories, that was literally the whole point.
Britain is not a tiny island. its the ninth largest in the word and is a lot bigger than Java (population of 156m BTW) and is only a little smaller than Honshu. The cities of the north are not dying. Some are doing badly, some are doing well. its not a given that what they need most is better links to London- better links between northern cities might do more.
More delays for Euston's HS2 station
51–60 of 143 posts
Re: More delays for Euston's HS2 station
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s not insane if your desired outcome is to stir up hatred against immigrants, and to use them as a political pawn for electioneering and personal gain. Ship ‘em in, simultaneously cut services, policing, remove initiatives aimed to aid integration, and all the while loot the country while blaming the “swarm” - or was it “tidal wave”? I forget. “Stop the boats!”, they howl, while opening the floodgates. I mean, net…
"It’s not insane if your desired outcome is to stir up hatred against immigrants" That sort-of violates the principle that you don't attribute to malice what can be explained by plain incompetence. People who really dislike immigrants won't vote Tory anyway, Reform UK is there to catch their vote (and sink the Tories in the process of doing so). Most of the immigration influx is legal anyway, not boat travellers.
Incompetence in not figuring out the long term consequences of campaign-time actions. So you campaign with hatred against immigrants because it's cheap. You campaign about how they use the dimnishing services. You campaing on cutting benefits to pander to "fiscal conservatives" and business that would like lower costs. You open immigration to pander to business wanting cheaper workforce.
In isolation, with exception of first, none of them are much about malice and all can seem logical for the "goal of winning is the most important thing". Even the first is more malice from pandering to whatever emotion gets you direct results, without necessarily thinking anything about actually being malicious towards immigrants.
Taken as a whole, looking at the whole system, it's a clusterfuck.
Re: More delays for Euston's HS2 station
#53I read an article[0] just this morning (dated yesterday), that due to reduced seats on HS2, passengers may need to be "encouraged" to NOT travel by train at certain times "if at all". With the war on drivers, and years of trying to convince us to travel by train, despite ludicrous prices and appalling service, they're now going to tell us _not_ to travel by train? Complete and utter insanity, I mean seriously, the pl…
>war on drivers I guess it's true what they say: for those accustomed to privilege, equality is aggression.
The only people being forced of the road are the under-privileged, those who can't afford electric vehicles by ULEZ, those who can't afford maintenance with poor roads, skyrocketing insurance, high fuel prices, ever increasing taxes, unfair parking charges for those using polluting Diesels who we encouraged and subsidised to buy them a few short years ago, and those who rely on them for their work or trade.
The only people who _won't_ be forced off of the road, are the privileged.
We'll all by walking and cycling around outside of London where the infrastructure continues to suffer after all of the public funds have been pocketed by the privileged for improved transport that was never delivered, while the roads are lined with processions of Chelsea tractors ignoring 20mph limits.
Re: More delays for Euston's HS2 station
#54I read an article[0] just this morning (dated yesterday), that due to reduced seats on HS2, passengers may need to be "encouraged" to NOT travel by train at certain times "if at all". With the war on drivers, and years of trying to convince us to travel by train, despite ludicrous prices and appalling service, they're now going to tell us _not_ to travel by train? Complete and utter insanity, I mean seriously, the pl…
There was never a 'war on drivers' - just empty rhetoric that Sunak clung on to after the Uxbridge by-election.
Sure "war on drivers" may be the wrong phrase, but there is nothing being done to encourage those who are not privileged, or live in London where transport is excellent, to use alternative means.
ULEZ, high insurance, fuel, tax, neglect of infrastructure, unfair parking charges for old/non-electric vehicles, etc, for those who can't afford electric vehicles or for whom they're not practical, who have older vehicles because that's what their budget allows for, and who require them for their trade, or because they have to travel further to find work, those for whom it's cheaper to drive than pay exorbitant rail fairs, at the cost of their time due to greedy rail providers with poor services, I'm sure for them it can feel like a war against them.
It's easy for those who live in London, or are able to cycle or walk everywhere they want/need to say; I lived in London for ten years and never needed to own a car; but for those out in the rest of the country, who have a family, have a disability, work in different locations day to day, or a plethora other reasons, that's just not reality.
Re: More delays for Euston's HS2 station
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why werent they thinking about this for the past 10 years when they're not been in power?
You don’t have the money nor the armies of civil servants, nor access to all the details when you’re not in government. Probably the best that they can do for anything this complex is headline policies and high level plans. Now they are in power it’s probably only 10–20% about having the right policy and 80–90% about execution being competent, consistent, and quick. They need to be given time to do the right thing, b…
Re: More delays for Euston's HS2 station
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
HS2 is by far the most important transportation project, it massively impacts the whole rail system. HS2 connects North and South like never before. And it massively improves what you can do with regional and local trains on the rest of the network. And its pretty much ready to go. Work is lined up and planed. All it needs is political support and funding. Other projects should be done, but they should be planned in…
> And its pretty much ready to go. Work is lined up and planed. Is it? Or does the plan need a bunch of revisions, to restore the link to Euston and address the cost over-runs? We all know there's not much money left. And politically speaking, Labour needs to give the north of england a fair deal on infrastructure spending, to shore up wavering support in red wall seats. HS2 is an exciting project that a lot of work…
Its certainty more ready then any potential large scale project in the North only.
> We all know there's not much money left.
Not sure what that means.
> And politically speaking, Labour needs to give the north of england a fair deal on infrastructure spending
HS2 is the best thing that can happen to the North, far better then any other possible prject. I'm not sure why you are not seeing this.
Express trains to London are ruining all the local network on the traditional main lines, and thus all connected branch lines.
HS2 will put all the express trains onto HS2. Meaning all of a sudden all the other lines have massive amounts of utilization free that can finally be used for regular regional and local travel.
Re: More delays for Euston's HS2 station
#57I read an article[0] just this morning (dated yesterday), that due to reduced seats on HS2, passengers may need to be "encouraged" to NOT travel by train at certain times "if at all". With the war on drivers, and years of trying to convince us to travel by train, despite ludicrous prices and appalling service, they're now going to tell us _not_ to travel by train? Complete and utter insanity, I mean seriously, the pl…
The government literally allocated tens of billions for drivers(including 8.3 billion taken from HS2 funding directly), and zero for cycling or other infrastructure. The whole idea of "war on drivers" is complete and utter nonsense - I'd actually risk saying that no group of people anywhere in this country is as well looked after and invested into as drivers.
And ironically, HS2 would have improved driving conditions in this country, because currently our rail system is at a capacity - so bulk non perishable goods are going by road instead of shipped by train - it's completely insane. It increases congestion as well as damages our roads further - but of course media presented it as some lavish extravagance to decrease travel time from manchester by 8 minutes, which it absolutely isn't about.
Re: More delays for Euston's HS2 station
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
>war on drivers I guess it's true what they say: for those accustomed to privilege, equality is aggression.
Nice attack there, if a little ignorant. The only people being forced of the road are the under-privileged, those who can't afford electric vehicles by ULEZ, those who can't afford maintenance with poor roads, skyrocketing insurance, high fuel prices, ever increasing taxes, unfair parking charges for those using polluting Diesels who we encouraged and subsidised to buy them a few short years ago, and those who rely o…
I wonder if you're doing this on purpose, or if you are genuienly unaware of ULEZ compliance conditions? ULEZ only requires your car to be Euro 4 compliant for petrol cars, and Euro 6 for diesels. Most(if not all) petrol cars that are younger than 20 years old are Euro 4 compliant, and any diesel made in the last 10 years should be Euro 6 compliant too. You are making it sound like you have to buy an EV to be ULEZ compliant, which is absolutely not true.
>>for those using polluting Diesels who we encouraged and subsidised to buy them a few short years ago
Well, you can't reverse decisions from the past - you can only improve on them. And ULEZ is one of the best decisions made anywhere in this country, its impact on pollution within London is undeniable, I wish every single city in the UK had a ULEZ zone.
>> and those who rely on them for their work or trade.
Funny, but this exact same argument was being used when leaded petrol was being phased out. And yet I can't imagine anyone would look back at that time and say it was a mistake to get rid of it.
>>skyrocketing insurance
That is one thing I 100% agree with you on - insurance industry is just a giant cartel right now, and they keep charging more and more despite skyrocketing profits. Their own numbers about increased cost of repairs doesn't line up with the increases in premiums across the board, it's all a scam.
>> high fuel prices
Fuel prices have been going down every year, even if the price of fuel has increased in absolute terms. Thank inflation for that one.
Re: More delays for Euston's HS2 station
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
You don’t have the money nor the armies of civil servants, nor access to all the details when you’re not in government. Probably the best that they can do for anything this complex is headline policies and high level plans. Now they are in power it’s probably only 10–20% about having the right policy and 80–90% about execution being competent, consistent, and quick. They need to be given time to do the right thing, b…
The opposition always have 100% access to all Government spending. It is publicly published. It’s pathetic Westminster politics and Parliamentary privilege that allows both sides to make lies like ‘it’s worse than we thought’.
When I wrote this I was not talking about accounting details, though I am not sure whether all of those details are really publicly available once you get down into the delivery organisations and projects that inevitably get set up for something like HS2.
What I was getting at is that this kind of project is hugely complex, and develops fast both as delivery progresses (or doesn't) and as decisions are made. Anyone who can't be in the room for those decisions and isn't managing the relationships and receiving the day to day reports is going to be at a big disadvantage if they are trying to make major changes.
You can stand on the sidelines and set how you would do things differently, but I don't think you can credibly turn up with a detailed plan that's ready to go on day one for something like this.
Re: More delays for Euston's HS2 station
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
> And its pretty much ready to go. Work is lined up and planed. Is it? Or does the plan need a bunch of revisions, to restore the link to Euston and address the cost over-runs? We all know there's not much money left. And politically speaking, Labour needs to give the north of england a fair deal on infrastructure spending, to shore up wavering support in red wall seats. HS2 is an exciting project that a lot of work…
There is quite a lot of work left in terms of detailed track planning. People that were working on that were all taken of the project. But this can be restarted, these projects are on-ice, not dead. Its certainty more ready then any potential large scale project in the North only. > We all know there's not much money left. Not sure what that means. > And politically speaking, Labour needs to give the north of england…
> Not sure what that means.
What it means is:
1. The UK national debt is high, about 7% of public spending is on interest payments. The debt-to-GDP ratio is the worst it's been in 60 years.
2. The current overall tax rate is the highest it's been since the 1960s. We might be able to get some extra money by going after tax cheats and suchlike, but it's probably not going to be easy; we don't have the money yet.
3. Previously we've tried cutting back on public services to get the debt down - "austerity" as it was called - and it was not regarded as a big success.
4. In fact, there have been loads of strikes and a long period of under-investment in public services. So we could probably spend quite a chunk of money just stopping the roofs falling down on the schools we've already got, to say nothing of building anything new.
5. Previous attempts to move public debt off the books, like PFI contracts, turned out to cost the taxpayer more in the long term.
6. Truss attempted to spur GDP growth to improve the debt-to-GDP ratio, and it went terribly.
7. Individuals aren't any better, with the high levels of mortgage debt and student loan debt, rising fuel bills and a cost-of-living crisis.
We're a hardy nation, we've dealt with worse and we'll get through this - but the reality is Starmer doesn't have a lot of cash to splash around.