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For advertising, Firefox now collects user data by default

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Re: For advertising, Firefox now collects user data by default

#341

Post by kevincox »

seanhunter wrote: post #301

If you want to disable this, instructions are given here[1] but 1) Hamburger menu -> Settings -> Privacy & Security 2) scroll down to the new section entitled "Web Site Advertising Preferences". 3) Make sure the box marked "Allow web sites to perform privacy-preserving ad measurement" is not checked. [1] https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/privacy-preserving-attr...

And of course this setting doesn't sync to new devices by default. So you need to remember to opt-out on every device.

The underlying pref is dom.private-attribution.submission.enabled. I'm going to force this off in my policies.

Re: For advertising, Firefox now collects user data by default

#342

Post by MiddleEndian »

MrAlex94 wrote: post #293
MiddleEndian wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There is no auto-update mechanism. Might not seem like a big deal, but IMO it is, especially on Windows where you're recommended to rely on 3rd party client to update the browser for you. You've now added a middle man, and since the binaries are not signed... well there's no guarantee you aren't downloading a malicious binary. To me, this seems like a plus. If you want users to update, provide them with something wo…

But we're not talking about Firefox's update mechanism here, we're talking about Librewolf's. They are already the custodians of custom settings and making the choice for you, so it doesn't seem like a valid comparison here. I would also say a web browser should be the one piece of software constantly updated due to the sheer volume of security patches issued every few weeks.

>But we're not talking about Firefox's update mechanism here, we're talking about Librewolf's.

Doesn't matter. I don't inherently trust any organization.

>They are already the custodians of custom settings and making the choice for you, so it doesn't seem like a valid comparison here.

I can make the choice to install software. I should be able to make the choice to upgrade it as I choose as well.

If I buy a chair from Crate+Barrel, I have given them the choice of designing and manufacturing that chair and all the decisions that went into it. But I do not give Crate+Barrel the choice of sneaking into my house and swapping it with some newer version of the chair that 51% of the population liked slightly better after 5 minutes of testing or that they think will make them more money somehow.

Re: For advertising, Firefox now collects user data by default

#343

Post by gjsman-1000 »

ho_schi wrote: post #183
temporarely wrote: post #162

Enough of this waiting for virtuous entities to address legitimate concerns of the public. The "ad industry" is a cancer and we need legal protection against this "industry". The solution is political not technical and definitely can not be left to "the market". Haven't you had enough?

Yep. One of the things which the FSF did right was the GPL. They didn’t tried like programmers hack against bad things which never works in long term. The bad people will change the API, lock the bootloader, implement a problematic standard (ACPI, SecureBoot) or add more DRM. We cannot solve political issues (law) with technical solutions (programming). If we don’t like locked iPhones, the solution is a law. If we do…

> One of the things which the FSF did right was the GPL

And the GPL is dying. Every year fewer projects are maintained under the GPL standard. Violations abound anyway. The MIT License and other permissive licenses; or commercially restrictive licenses like the SSPL, are the new go-to; because the GPL didn’t think about SaaS or “Tivoization” until it was too late.

Re: For advertising, Firefox now collects user data by default

#344

Post by ajdude »

Kalium wrote: post #323
nerdponx wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there is one single piece of software I will post a recurring fee for, it's a web browser. Look at Kagi and Orion for example (I pay for both). It's like email. You need to get people over the mental hump. But then if you offer a good product, buyers will be happy they got over it.

https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/donate/ Here you go! Insert credit card here.

Except that it's well-known fact that none of your donations for the foundation ever go anywhere near Firefox itself, since Firefox is spun off as their commercial sector to accept Google's money

Re: For advertising, Firefox now collects user data by default

#345

Post by zztop44 »

phicoh wrote: post #298
Klonoar wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One reason is that the people who would be promoting Firefox aren't. Individual promotion of Firefox worked very well when the browser(s) it was trying to displace were effectively frozen in time. Chrome (et al) and Safari are not those browsers. The average user isn't going to get a markedly different experience by switching to Firefox.

That is because Mozilla has consistently moved Firefox in the direction of a Chrome clone. When Firefox started is was not a copy of existing browsers. There is no reason it would have to be now. But they have rejected their core users. So now the only option left is a Chrome clone because that is what people are used to.

People used to have a dozen different instances of IE6 open. It was a pain to switch between them and it made your computer run slow. Firefox had tabs. And it had AdBlock. Those were things people wanted.

But these days, Chrome is plenty good enough for most people. Even if Firefox had a perfect privacy story and focused on their core users’ every whim, I don’t think their market share would grow.

Re: For advertising, Firefox now collects user data by default

#346

Post by arepublicadoceu »

bee_rider wrote: post #325
arepublicadoceu wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or the third option: they feel the tradeoff of HN & co's criticism style is not a big deal in the end. Well, right now, with their dwindling market cap, I feel like their only userbase is HN & co's type of user. They repeatedly failed to increase their user base with non privacy conscious adjacent communities. So antagonizing the ONLY folks that go through the trouble of installing a non default browser to have a w…

It seems somewhat questionable whether or not it is possible to sustain something as complex as Firefox based on users like us. There might not be enough, or enough people willing to pay. They’d be really screwed if Google didn’t give them a good deal. Somewhat wondering if Google just keeps them around to stave off the appearance of being a monopoly. The web seems to have gotten pretty unsustainable in general. Migh…

> It seems somewhat questionable whether or not it is possible to sustain something as complex as Firefox based on users like us.

I have this crazy theory that Firefox could be completely sustained by users willing to pay for it.

I mean... Mozilla Co definitely couldn't be sustained by users money only, but Firefox could.

The only path I can see for a healthy web (if this is even possible right now) is to completely liberate Firefox from Mozilla's shackles and mismanagement. A free and open-source browser should be treated more like a public good, such as a Linux distribution, than a money-making machine.

Re: For advertising, Firefox now collects user data by default

#347

Post by _heimdall »

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #273
_heimdall wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone bothered enough by advertising can stop using whatever product has been ruined by ads, or find ways to remove the advertising. More laws and larger governments doesn't have to be the answer to all problems. If consumers care enough they'll change their usage, if they don't change their usage they likely don't care enough.

We can, but, as OP noted, the change is only temporary, while political change is harder, but also tends to last longer. I still remember when pihole worked on most things. These days it is just a part of adblocking approach for me. tldr: Some of us are tired of fiddling with things where were we shouldn't have to. If market participants can't behave ( and they clearly can't help themselves ), it is the only real ans…

> My household dropped Netflix and Prime over their silliness. We currently still have Disney until they get too greedy. And that is just streaming. Regular net is soooo much worse without a way to scrub the ads away.

Isn't that a good example of consumers exercising their right to not patronize companies they don't agree with? You didn't need a law stopping you from using Prime, and you don't have a right to use it, you just decided you didn't like their product anymore.

The blindspot missing in a ban of advertising is what that does to the viability and price of a product. Prime and Netflix as it is today is built based partly on the advertising revenue. Presumably if that money disappears the product would get worse, disappear, or become more expensive.

Re: For advertising, Firefox now collects user data by default

#348

Post by btylke »

jellykid wrote: post #200
temporarely wrote: post #162

Enough of this waiting for virtuous entities to address legitimate concerns of the public. The "ad industry" is a cancer and we need legal protection against this "industry". The solution is political not technical and definitely can not be left to "the market". Haven't you had enough?

When it comes to the internet... I'd prefer it to stay like the wild west. Least amount of regulation beyond something like net neutrality. People forget that the reason we have all of these "free" services is because of ads and that's coming from someone who hates ads. Every streaming subscription I have, I pay for the ad-free service. Let the people who don't know how to install a browser extension or change a few…

You may not see the ads in that content, but your data will still be collected and sold. This is where we lack fundamental protections.

Re: For advertising, Firefox now collects user data by default

#349

Post by blueflow »

kevincox wrote: post #341
seanhunter wrote: post #301

If you want to disable this, instructions are given here[1] but 1) Hamburger menu -> Settings -> Privacy & Security 2) scroll down to the new section entitled "Web Site Advertising Preferences". 3) Make sure the box marked "Allow web sites to perform privacy-preserving ad measurement" is not checked. [1] https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/privacy-preserving-attr...

And of course this setting doesn't sync to new devices by default. So you need to remember to opt-out on every device. The underlying pref is dom.private-attribution.submission.enabled. I'm going to force this off in my policies.

How do you sync these settings across devices? I need such a thing, too.

Re: For advertising, Firefox now collects user data by default

#350

Post by lucianbr »

nubinetwork wrote: post #309
Barrin92 wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firefox has 3% market share. Completely refusing to engage with your enemies only works when you have the actual guns to back that attitude up. If you refuse to engage with the ad industry they just ignore you. Oh and the company that owns a large part of the world's ad industry and owns the browser that has 65% market share also pays like 90% of your bills. I mean, what's step two of your glorious plan to charge fis…

Maybe they would have a better market share if they weren't constantly pulling this shit every two or three years...

I know it feels right to say that. But really, do you think the majority of people who switched from Firefox to Chrome did it because FF did not address their privacy concerns? Seems ridiculous. However bad FF is, Chrome is much worse.

It seems far more likely that the remaining 3% are the few people who care, and therefore, "pulling this shit" did not cause the current market share.

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