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Safer roundabouts are replacing traffic signals (2023)

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Re: Safer roundabouts are replacing traffic signals (2023)

#71
Most people who object to roundabouts are drivers who don't know how to drive on them, which leads to hand-wavy dismissals of all criticisms of roundabouts as "you'll learn, look at these stats, they're safer!"

But for a pedestrian in a populated area, roundabouts are not an improvement.

Quick, how does a pedestrian safely cross a lane of traffic? Is it while dodging moving traffic, or does it involve traffic coming to a stop?

If you said the first, I hereby revoke your license to design public infrastructure. For pedestrians to safely cross a lane of traffic, cars need to come a stop, period.

And the whole selling point of a roundabout is that cars don't come to a stop. This is fine for rural areas or large interchanges. But for anywhere that pedestrians are expected to be, roundabouts make the environment more hostile.

And this is before we consider that to cross a roundabout requires setting the pedestrian crossings back from the intersection, forcing pedestrians to zig-zag in order to use them.

And this is also before we consider that we know for a fact that shallower turns (which allow cars to retain more speed) are less safe than sharper turns (which require cars to shed speed), which further exacerbates the pedestrian safety issue.

To say nothing of the fact that roundabouts preclude implementing pedestrian scrambles, which are the safest and most efficient form of pedestrian crossing.

Roundabouts are a solution to a problem of making roads safer for cars, at the expense of pedestrians and cyclists. They exacerbate the problem of our depressingly car-oriented infrastructure. "But the stats say they're safer!" Yeah, and when Google reduced page sizes they saw their average latencies increase. This is a fun way of lying with statistics. Sure, fatalities from roundabouts go down when you create such a human-hostile environment that every pedestrian and cyclist goes out of their way to avoid it, or just throws their hands up in despair and buys a car, since it's a signal that car owners are the only thing people worth optimizing for.

Re: Safer roundabouts are replacing traffic signals (2023)

#72
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But do you have to explain? Isn’t it part of the studies one do in order to obtain a driving license in us?

No, it isn’t. Well, it’s a state by state thing so I can’t speak for all of them. But it’s not common.

So there is no theory exam in order to obtain a license?

Re: Safer roundabouts are replacing traffic signals (2023)

#73
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it isn’t. Well, it’s a state by state thing so I can’t speak for all of them. But it’s not common.

So there is no theory exam in order to obtain a license?

There are. They just don’t feature roundabouts.

Re: Safer roundabouts are replacing traffic signals (2023)

#74

I'm an American who lived in the UK for a couple of years. They have many roundabouts there, and I love them. But now I live in an American town with a few, and I've realized that there's a reason that they are less safe in the US than in the UK--besides the fact that American drivers are less familiar with them. It's a solvable problem, but not one I've heard people talk about. (Though to be clear, I'm not a traffic…

Roundabouts are also common in Australia, and crosswalks are placed some distance from them.

However, in my experience, pedestrians still cross at them all the time because an intersection (whether it's a roundabout, red lights, etc.) is always going to be the most convenient place to cross if you are trying to walk down a road for several blocks.

I have been living in a rural area of Australia now for over 10 years, and while I do think roundabouts are great, they should not be used where there are a lot of pedestrians. They get WAY overused in small rural towns here, leading to a high rate of rural pedestrian deaths.

Re: Safer roundabouts are replacing traffic signals (2023)

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But do you have to explain? Isn’t it part of the studies one do in order to obtain a driving license in us?

U.S. drivers are profoundly ignorant, and often belligerently so. They block the passing lane (this is the biggest problem in U.S. transportation, no exaggeration). They don't signal. They can barely park. And most of all, they're texting ALL THE TIME. They kill pedestrians, kill other drivers, and steal thousands if not millions of hours from the rest of us every day. This is actively abetted by politicians, who ref…

> They block the passing lane

What do you mean by block it?

I can't recall the last time I saw someone in the passing lane that was driving under the speed limit (or prevailing speed when there's traffic) except when preparing to turn left.

Re: Safer roundabouts are replacing traffic signals (2023)

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The data cited in the article is based on usage by American drivers. So you can drop your skepticism, they already work. Anecdotally, they’re converting a number of intersections here in rural, Northern MN to roundabouts and they are _very_ effective at reducing fatalities and injuries.

I guess that depends on your definition of "work." Do they reduce delays? I believe (and have seen) that they can. But I've also seen traffic circles implemented with stop signs in the U.S., a failure. But hey, I'm down for more to be built in the USA and let's give it a shot.

This is the reason on that traffic related infrastructure is so insane in the US: here we have evidence that roundabouts save lives, but the only thing the American can wonder is how fast they can get through it (to work no doubt).

Re: Safer roundabouts are replacing traffic signals (2023)

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

U.S. drivers are profoundly ignorant, and often belligerently so. They block the passing lane (this is the biggest problem in U.S. transportation, no exaggeration). They don't signal. They can barely park. And most of all, they're texting ALL THE TIME. They kill pedestrians, kill other drivers, and steal thousands if not millions of hours from the rest of us every day. This is actively abetted by politicians, who ref…

> They block the passing lane What do you mean by block it? I can't recall the last time I saw someone in the passing lane that was driving under the speed limit (or prevailing speed when there's traffic) except when preparing to turn left.

The passing lane has nothing to do with the speed limit. It's for passing only, at ANY speed (with the unfortunate exception of truly bumper-to-bumper traffic). When you're done passing (or aren't passing), GTFO. That's especially true if someone comes up behind you.

Some states have laws saying so. Illinois law says it's illegal to block the passing lane for more than half a mile at ANY speed.

Now states need to take the next step and paint "passing only" in the left lane. We spend trillions on highways, and then let one jagoff waste it all by blocking traffic.

Re: Safer roundabouts are replacing traffic signals (2023)

#78

I'm an American who lived in the UK for a couple of years. They have many roundabouts there, and I love them. But now I live in an American town with a few, and I've realized that there's a reason that they are less safe in the US than in the UK--besides the fact that American drivers are less familiar with them. It's a solvable problem, but not one I've heard people talk about. (Though to be clear, I'm not a traffic…

This kind of roundabout is awful for pedestrians and drivers: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.5737159,-5.9326045,127m/da... Surprise! I'm going to walk in front of you.

It's funny how the Run Coaching is placed in the middle of the roundabout!

Re: Safer roundabouts are replacing traffic signals (2023)

#79

I'm an American who lived in the UK for a couple of years. They have many roundabouts there, and I love them. But now I live in an American town with a few, and I've realized that there's a reason that they are less safe in the US than in the UK--besides the fact that American drivers are less familiar with them. It's a solvable problem, but not one I've heard people talk about. (Though to be clear, I'm not a traffic…

In the Netherlands it is very common to have both crosswalks and bike priority lanes on the roundabout, especially in busy city environments. This actually improves safety, as the 'vulnerable' road users cross when drivers are driving slow and alert. Also, the access to the roundabout is slowed down by the crosswalks and bike lane, which improves safety for the drivers as well.

Re: Safer roundabouts are replacing traffic signals (2023)

#80
post #71

Most people who object to roundabouts are drivers who don't know how to drive on them, which leads to hand-wavy dismissals of all criticisms of roundabouts as "you'll learn, look at these stats, they're safer!" But for a pedestrian in a populated area, roundabouts are not an improvement . Quick, how does a pedestrian safely cross a lane of traffic? Is it while dodging moving traffic, or does it involve traffic coming…

I'd rather cross at a roundabout than at a crosswalk somewhere along a straight road. Actually, last week I got almost run over in such a situation. A bus stopped for the crosswalk, blinked lights to indicate he'd seen me. I start to cross, and at the same time a van overtakes the bus at 'normal' speed and almost running me over as I could not see the van behind the bus, and the van could not see me. This would not have been possible at a roundabout as all traffic is slow and overtaking is not possible.
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