Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning • Hacker News Board

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#81

Post by smelendez » Sat, Jul 13, 2024, 4:54 PM UTC

blantonl wrote: post #15

RheingoldRiver wrote: post #9

I was there last weekend & for the day of the hurricane. This was just a cat 1 hurricane at the time it passed through Houston, and there was SO much damage. I can't imagine the city is remotely prepared for (god forbid, and idk how likely it is that far inland anyway) a cat 4 or 5. We were staying in a hotel that had a backup generator, but every single other building that was visible from our hotel had lost power d…

This wasn't a "grid issue." It is a last-mile issue. It's specifically an issue with the sheer amount of above ground power lines and population density. There is no easy fix, preparation, or practically anything else that can be done to prevent something like this. Plus, what causes the same amount of power outages (wind damage) isn't going to be different between 90mph winds and 150 mph winds. The effects are going…

Ida in New Orleans was a real mess and exposed a lot of issues in the city besides electricity.

Because power was out for so long, everyone threw out a ton of food, but there was no trash pickup in some cases for weeks because of staffing shortages and contract disputes, so there was stinky trash and huge swarms of bright blue flies everywhere. At one point, the mayor suggested people could drive their own trash to the transfer station—after it had been sitting out in 95 degree heat for weeks.

There also was no proper street cleaning, which meant streets and sidewalks were full of storm debris, including things like roofing nails. The lines at tire repair shops were wrapping around the block.

Entergy's meter reading and billing also got completely thrown off. I moved shortly after Ida, and it took months to get any bill at all in the new place, and I only got my final bill for the old place this year, almost three years later, no longer living in Louisiana. (They also never actually sent me the bill or turned on my autopay, so I only knew it was time to pay when the power went out).

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#82

Post by FrustratedMonky » Sat, Jul 13, 2024, 4:55 PM UTC

FredPret wrote: post #49

FrustratedMonky wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"no easy fix, preparation, or practically anything else that can be done to prevent something like this" Regulations on the initial construction? In other words, plan ahead. But no, I must have my 'Freeeeedooooommmmm'. You can't force me to prepare.

Why didn’t we think to regulate physics before!?

Does physics dictate how you build power lines? Where is physics the constraint on more hardened construction? Physics isn't saying, build above ground and 'low cost'.

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#83

Post by tardy_one » Sat, Jul 13, 2024, 4:56 PM UTC

wannacboatmovie wrote: post #11

gigatexal wrote: post #3

Not angry enough to get their elected officials to make the power grid changes needed to make it more robust to such things. I mean how can they when reps like Ted Cruz fly off to Cancun when the weather gets really bad.

> Not angry enough to get their elected officials to make the power grid changes needed Do you have the magic solution that makes them resilient to natural disasters short of burying every single power line underground? Which is not only impractical but insanely expensive. The infrastructure has been physically damaged or destroyed. You fired off a politically charged comment and offered no specifics.

Improving a percentage of a net has reduced down percentage for a reduced timeframe, so it seems like there are obviously better alternatives to the hand wringing approach if the goal isn't actually to justify doing nothing.

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#84

Post by atmavatar » Sat, Jul 13, 2024, 4:56 PM UTC

gmueckl wrote: post #24

blantonl wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This wasn't a "grid issue." It is a last-mile issue. It's specifically an issue with the sheer amount of above ground power lines and population density. There is no easy fix, preparation, or practically anything else that can be done to prevent something like this. Plus, what causes the same amount of power outages (wind damage) isn't going to be different between 90mph winds and 150 mph winds. The effects are going…

What's wrong with below-ground power distribution for metropolitan areas?

I'm getting strong "'No way to prevent this' says only country where this regularly happens" vibes.

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#85

Post by dwighttk » Sat, Jul 13, 2024, 4:57 PM UTC

KingOfCoders wrote: post #61

bob1029 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Houston is gigantic. Maintaining underground infrastructure can be very difficult. https://practical.engineering/blog/2021/9/16/repairing-under...

Berlin, 3.645M citizen, everything underground. Houston, 2.302M citizen, ... "gigantic"

When people are talking about Houston they are talking about Greater Houston: 7.5M people over 10,000 square miles

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Houston

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#86

Post by genocidicbunny » Sat, Jul 13, 2024, 4:58 PM UTC

tzs wrote: post #75

RheingoldRiver wrote: post #9

I was there last weekend & for the day of the hurricane. This was just a cat 1 hurricane at the time it passed through Houston, and there was SO much damage. I can't imagine the city is remotely prepared for (god forbid, and idk how likely it is that far inland anyway) a cat 4 or 5. We were staying in a hotel that had a backup generator, but every single other building that was visible from our hotel had lost power d…

> I can't imagine the city is remotely prepared for (god forbid, and idk how likely it is that far inland anyway) a cat 4 or 5. In the past they've never had a cat 5. The last cat 5 was Carla in 1961. The last cat 3 was Alicia in 1983. The last cat 2 was Alicia in 2008 (although that was actually east of Houston and just hit Houston with its weaker winds). Climate change should make such storms more likely to form, b…

I'd expect the population of Houston in those days was also a little more self selective, in that of you couldn't deal with that heat, you probably didn't want to live there anyways.

There's a reason a lot of southwestern cities like Phoenix started booming in population when AC became more readily available.

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#87

Post by k8sToGo » Sat, Jul 13, 2024, 4:58 PM UTC

KingOfCoders wrote: post #36

Germany has overengineered and expensive utilities, but I'm happy sometimes that all power and telephone lines are underground.

Utilities are much cheaper in Germany than for example California. At least it was when I lived there.

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#88

Post by FrustratedMonky » Sat, Jul 13, 2024, 4:58 PM UTC

blantonl wrote: post #41

FrustratedMonky wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"no easy fix, preparation, or practically anything else that can be done to prevent something like this" Regulations on the initial construction? In other words, plan ahead. But no, I must have my 'Freeeeedooooommmmm'. You can't force me to prepare.

Yeah, well what about existing infrastructure? Most new construction already buries the last mile of power. But if you do have above ground power lines feeding your house, how likely would it be that you'd be in favor of having your entire backyard dug up for a couple weeks while they implemented this huge public works project? How likely would you be willing to shoulder the cost burden? And of course, it's just as s…

Sure, just stop complaining about not having power.

Seems like everyone is ready to argue about how impossible everything is. Shrugs "guess it's impossible, we just have to go on like we've always have".

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#89

Post by harimau777 » Sat, Jul 13, 2024, 4:59 PM UTC

wannacboatmovie wrote: post #54

harimau777 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Increased trimming of trees near power lines. Apparently CenterPoint spent significantly less than some of the other power suppliers on maintenance. I don't know that it would help in this specific instance, but connecting Texas to the rest of the power grid would likely make the system overall more resilient.

> I don't know that it would help in this specific instance, but connecting Texas to the rest of the power grid would likely make the system overall more resilient. Irrelevant wishful thinking. The outages are caused by localized physical damage. There is no shortage of grid power. Inter-ties to every grid in the world wouldn't help when the wires on the last mile have been physically destroyed.

Note that I said "I don't know that it would help in this specific instance"

Previous outages have been caused by issues with the grid rather than lines. Apparently CenterPoint is predicting that this summer power usage will near the grid's capacity and supposedly CenterPoint is known for underestimating.

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#90

Post by SoftTalker » Sat, Jul 13, 2024, 4:59 PM UTC

blantonl wrote: post #41

FrustratedMonky wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"no easy fix, preparation, or practically anything else that can be done to prevent something like this" Regulations on the initial construction? In other words, plan ahead. But no, I must have my 'Freeeeedooooommmmm'. You can't force me to prepare.

Yeah, well what about existing infrastructure? Most new construction already buries the last mile of power. But if you do have above ground power lines feeding your house, how likely would it be that you'd be in favor of having your entire backyard dug up for a couple weeks while they implemented this huge public works project? How likely would you be willing to shoulder the cost burden? And of course, it's just as s…

I would love it, personally. In addition to being vulnerable to wind and tree damage, above-ground power lines are very unsightly. Just compare any neighborhood with underground power to the ones where you can't look out of any window without seeing ugly poles and wires everywhere.