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Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

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Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#31

Post by bob1029 »

gmueckl wrote: post #24
blantonl wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This wasn't a "grid issue." It is a last-mile issue. It's specifically an issue with the sheer amount of above ground power lines and population density. There is no easy fix, preparation, or practically anything else that can be done to prevent something like this. Plus, what causes the same amount of power outages (wind damage) isn't going to be different between 90mph winds and 150 mph winds. The effects are going…

What's wrong with below-ground power distribution for metropolitan areas?

Houston is gigantic.

Maintaining underground infrastructure can be very difficult.

https://practical.engineering/blog/2021/9/16/repairing-under...

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#32

Post by wolfendin »

SoftTalker wrote: post #7
Mindless2112 wrote: post #4

TL;DR: > “The grid is a whole different issue which we’re addressing, have been addressing, and will continue to address,” Patrick said. “The power is down because the lines are down, and the transmission lines are down primarily because trees fell on them.”

Yes, building the infrastructure in the cheapest way possible has consequences. Underground lines would not be vulnerable to falling trees. But they are a lot more expensive to install, and when they require maintenence for any other reasons.

They are also a lot more vulnerable to flooding which is also a major issue in a hurricane

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#33

Post by bdcravens »

RheingoldRiver wrote: post #9

I was there last weekend & for the day of the hurricane. This was just a cat 1 hurricane at the time it passed through Houston, and there was SO much damage. I can't imagine the city is remotely prepared for (god forbid, and idk how likely it is that far inland anyway) a cat 4 or 5. We were staying in a hotel that had a backup generator, but every single other building that was visible from our hotel had lost power d…

I live in an area northwest of Houston.

We had similar outages (though not as long) in May (serious storm, but not a hurricane)

In many cases, it's the result of winds knocking trees into powerlines. I feel like preventative maintenance could mitigate this. A big factor is likely our deregulation: the electricity provider isn't the company billing end customers.

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#34

Post by llamaimperative »

wongarsu wrote: post #25
SoftTalker wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, building the infrastructure in the cheapest way possible has consequences. Underground lines would not be vulnerable to falling trees. But they are a lot more expensive to install, and when they require maintenence for any other reasons.

As European I find it strange how few power and telecom wires seem to be buried in the US. What's up with that? I get that in rural regions digging a ditch isn't worth it, but the Houston area has pretty high population density and still has wires on poles.

Houston doesn’t have high population density. It has a gigantic population over an utterly enormous land area. And that’s why they “can’t” build infrastructure correctly and cost effectively.

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#35

Post by zamadatix »

epolanski wrote: post #8

To me it's crazy people run so much AC at home. It's like making global warming a worse problem with AC, so it gets hotter and we use more AC. I live in Rome, Italy, we had 40C (104F) degree max temperatures during day, and even at night it doesn't fall below 29C (84) and we survive without AC just fine, not just me but the rest of my family in their houses too, of course it is sometimes uncomfortable, but that's sum…

Lowering energy usage doesn't solve the climate problem it just slows the devastation. We need to use clean energy regardless if it's for AC or for work to have a worthwhile impact on that half of things. From another view: it's better to live well sustainably than be proud of unsustainably living miserably. To do that we need to convince people to pay more for electricity generation instead of pointing out they likely wouldn't die if they used less dirty energy.

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#37

Post by spyspy »

gmueckl wrote: post #24
blantonl wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This wasn't a "grid issue." It is a last-mile issue. It's specifically an issue with the sheer amount of above ground power lines and population density. There is no easy fix, preparation, or practically anything else that can be done to prevent something like this. Plus, what causes the same amount of power outages (wind damage) isn't going to be different between 90mph winds and 150 mph winds. The effects are going…

What's wrong with below-ground power distribution for metropolitan areas?

Much more expensive to install and maintain, and while risk from wind and rain is lessened, you add the risk of any below ground construction accidentally severing cables.

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#38

Post by genocidicbunny »

wongarsu wrote: post #25
SoftTalker wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, building the infrastructure in the cheapest way possible has consequences. Underground lines would not be vulnerable to falling trees. But they are a lot more expensive to install, and when they require maintenence for any other reasons.

As European I find it strange how few power and telecom wires seem to be buried in the US. What's up with that? I get that in rural regions digging a ditch isn't worth it, but the Houston area has pretty high population density and still has wires on poles.

A lot of the infrastructure was established when density was much lower, so it was built out in the cheaper way, and now changing it is more expensive than just keeping on keeping on.

That and a lot of Europe got to do some involuntary infrastructure rebuilding in the 1940s that the US didn't.

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#39

Post by bdcravens »

silverquiet wrote: post #26
RheingoldRiver wrote: post #9

I was there last weekend & for the day of the hurricane. This was just a cat 1 hurricane at the time it passed through Houston, and there was SO much damage. I can't imagine the city is remotely prepared for (god forbid, and idk how likely it is that far inland anyway) a cat 4 or 5. We were staying in a hotel that had a backup generator, but every single other building that was visible from our hotel had lost power d…

I see people talking about deficiencies in the Texas grid, and that may be true but hardly seems relevant to Houston; it's the Houston grid that seems to be acutely problematic. In fact, it occurred to me that with much of Houston still offline, the TX grid is probably less stressed than usual and a look at the dashboards on ercot.com would seem to confirm this - capacity is well over demand.

The state grid is problematic at other times, but in the case of storms, it's irrelevant when a fallen tree takes out a physical power line. It's more of a "last mile" issue.

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#40

Post by 547555 »

wannacboatmovie wrote: post #11
gigatexal wrote: post #3

Not angry enough to get their elected officials to make the power grid changes needed to make it more robust to such things. I mean how can they when reps like Ted Cruz fly off to Cancun when the weather gets really bad.

> Not angry enough to get their elected officials to make the power grid changes needed Do you have the magic solution that makes them resilient to natural disasters short of burying every single power line underground? Which is not only impractical but insanely expensive. The infrastructure has been physically damaged or destroyed. You fired off a politically charged comment and offered no specifics.

It targets the right. His comment won't get [flagged] even if it's a mind fart.
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