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Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

cnn.com

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Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#21

Post by FrustratedMonky »

blantonl wrote: post #15
RheingoldRiver wrote: post #9

I was there last weekend & for the day of the hurricane. This was just a cat 1 hurricane at the time it passed through Houston, and there was SO much damage. I can't imagine the city is remotely prepared for (god forbid, and idk how likely it is that far inland anyway) a cat 4 or 5. We were staying in a hotel that had a backup generator, but every single other building that was visible from our hotel had lost power d…

This wasn't a "grid issue." It is a last-mile issue. It's specifically an issue with the sheer amount of above ground power lines and population density. There is no easy fix, preparation, or practically anything else that can be done to prevent something like this. Plus, what causes the same amount of power outages (wind damage) isn't going to be different between 90mph winds and 150 mph winds. The effects are going…

"no easy fix, preparation, or practically anything else that can be done to prevent something like this"

Regulations on the initial construction? In other words, plan ahead.

But no, I must have my 'Freeeeedooooommmmm'.

You can't force me to prepare.

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#22

Post by harimau777 »

wannacboatmovie wrote: post #11
gigatexal wrote: post #3

Not angry enough to get their elected officials to make the power grid changes needed to make it more robust to such things. I mean how can they when reps like Ted Cruz fly off to Cancun when the weather gets really bad.

> Not angry enough to get their elected officials to make the power grid changes needed Do you have the magic solution that makes them resilient to natural disasters short of burying every single power line underground? Which is not only impractical but insanely expensive. The infrastructure has been physically damaged or destroyed. You fired off a politically charged comment and offered no specifics.

Increased trimming of trees near power lines. Apparently CenterPoint spent significantly less than some of the other power suppliers on maintenance.

I don't know that it would help in this specific instance, but connecting Texas to the rest of the power grid would likely make the system overall more resilient.

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#24

Post by gmueckl »

blantonl wrote: post #15
RheingoldRiver wrote: post #9

I was there last weekend & for the day of the hurricane. This was just a cat 1 hurricane at the time it passed through Houston, and there was SO much damage. I can't imagine the city is remotely prepared for (god forbid, and idk how likely it is that far inland anyway) a cat 4 or 5. We were staying in a hotel that had a backup generator, but every single other building that was visible from our hotel had lost power d…

This wasn't a "grid issue." It is a last-mile issue. It's specifically an issue with the sheer amount of above ground power lines and population density. There is no easy fix, preparation, or practically anything else that can be done to prevent something like this. Plus, what causes the same amount of power outages (wind damage) isn't going to be different between 90mph winds and 150 mph winds. The effects are going…

What's wrong with below-ground power distribution for metropolitan areas?

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#25

Post by wongarsu »

SoftTalker wrote: post #7
Mindless2112 wrote: post #4

TL;DR: > “The grid is a whole different issue which we’re addressing, have been addressing, and will continue to address,” Patrick said. “The power is down because the lines are down, and the transmission lines are down primarily because trees fell on them.”

Yes, building the infrastructure in the cheapest way possible has consequences. Underground lines would not be vulnerable to falling trees. But they are a lot more expensive to install, and when they require maintenence for any other reasons.

As European I find it strange how few power and telecom wires seem to be buried in the US. What's up with that? I get that in rural regions digging a ditch isn't worth it, but the Houston area has pretty high population density and still has wires on poles.

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#26

Post by silverquiet »

RheingoldRiver wrote: post #9

I was there last weekend & for the day of the hurricane. This was just a cat 1 hurricane at the time it passed through Houston, and there was SO much damage. I can't imagine the city is remotely prepared for (god forbid, and idk how likely it is that far inland anyway) a cat 4 or 5. We were staying in a hotel that had a backup generator, but every single other building that was visible from our hotel had lost power d…

I see people talking about deficiencies in the Texas grid, and that may be true but hardly seems relevant to Houston; it's the Houston grid that seems to be acutely problematic. In fact, it occurred to me that with much of Houston still offline, the TX grid is probably less stressed than usual and a look at the dashboards on ercot.com would seem to confirm this - capacity is well over demand.

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#27

Post by alephnerd »

gmueckl wrote: post #24
blantonl wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This wasn't a "grid issue." It is a last-mile issue. It's specifically an issue with the sheer amount of above ground power lines and population density. There is no easy fix, preparation, or practically anything else that can be done to prevent something like this. Plus, what causes the same amount of power outages (wind damage) isn't going to be different between 90mph winds and 150 mph winds. The effects are going…

What's wrong with below-ground power distribution for metropolitan areas?

It's time consuming and expensive to implement due to a mix of property rights and construction.

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#29

Post by foota »

gmueckl wrote: post #24
blantonl wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This wasn't a "grid issue." It is a last-mile issue. It's specifically an issue with the sheer amount of above ground power lines and population density. There is no easy fix, preparation, or practically anything else that can be done to prevent something like this. Plus, what causes the same amount of power outages (wind damage) isn't going to be different between 90mph winds and 150 mph winds. The effects are going…

What's wrong with below-ground power distribution for metropolitan areas?

"There is no easy fix" underground power lines for an entire city isn't easy.

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#30

Post by blantonl »

gmueckl wrote: post #24
blantonl wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This wasn't a "grid issue." It is a last-mile issue. It's specifically an issue with the sheer amount of above ground power lines and population density. There is no easy fix, preparation, or practically anything else that can be done to prevent something like this. Plus, what causes the same amount of power outages (wind damage) isn't going to be different between 90mph winds and 150 mph winds. The effects are going…

What's wrong with below-ground power distribution for metropolitan areas?

There's nothing wrong with it. But it would take lifetimes of money and time to retrofit a city like Houston to move all power infrastructure underground. And there is no way consumers would ever sign up for the cost to do so. It would be akin to building the Hoover Dam today. It would probably be one of the largest public works projects ever attempted.
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