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Qualcomm's Oryon core: A long time in the making

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Re: Qualcomm's Oryon core: A long time in the making

#111

Post by dagmx »

burningChrome wrote: post #110
dagmx wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a very narrow definition of “useful” and one I’d say is rather focused on yourself? Why is Linux the arbiter of what is “useful”? Why would it still be a benchmark flex if it was on macOS, an Os where millions of people do professional work everyday? And why is the iPad just a “Netflix machine” when tons of people use the iPad for professional creative use cases as well?

Why is Apple the arbiter of what is “useful”? Why would it still be a benchmark flex if it was on Linux, an Os where millions of people do professional work everyday? Your argument cuts both ways.

It doesn’t cut both ways because I’m not making that argument at all. You interjected your own argument that you’re now arguing against.

I’m making the argument that “usefulness” extends outside of Linux use. I’m not saying it only extends to a specific group. Point me to where that is even implied.

Re: Qualcomm's Oryon core: A long time in the making

#112

Post by dagmx »

kernal wrote: post #104
bhouston wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking at this chart Apple just destroys the competition: https://browser.geekbench.com/mobile-benchmarks Also Apple's mobile devices destroy the competition in this chart as well if you sort by thread: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/CPU_mega_page.html

According to Geekerwan (who is one of the best mobile SoC reviewers) Apple does not destroy the competition. In fact, aside from the A17 single core score (which comes at the cost of increased thermals and aggressive throttling) Apple is the one destroyed in multi-core and GPU performance. All the while being on an inferior TSMC node. >Snapdragon 8 Gen 3 comparison with A17. Apple's multicore lead is gone, GPU lead i…

This is because the Adreno ~830 excels at mobile benchmarks and falls significantly behind in “desktop” oriented benchmarks.

You can see this borne out in all the Snapdragon X GPU benches where they share the same GPU architectures respectively.

Apple have the better GPU for more modern and demanding workloads. Qualcomm have the better GPU for more dated but still highly relevant mobile gaming needs.

Re: Qualcomm's Oryon core: A long time in the making

#113

Post by refulgentis »

retskrad wrote: post #4

The M4 is the highest single core CPU in the world and it’s in a ridiculously thin tablet without cooling. I don’t understand where this idea that Apple has lost most of their chip design talent and is in trouble rhetoric is coming from. Apple still makes the world’s most advanced and efficient consumer chips, years after the M1.

> I don’t understand where this idea that Apple has lost most of their chip design talent and is in trouble rhetoric is coming from.

I think...you?

I read the article in full a few hours ago and didn't see anything like that.

I skimmed it again, and also gave it a go of grepping TFA "lost", "talent" "trouble": 0 results (Chrome, command F).

Re: Qualcomm's Oryon core: A long time in the making

#114

Post by refulgentis »

stefan_ wrote: post #99
retskrad wrote: post #4

The M4 is the highest single core CPU in the world and it’s in a ridiculously thin tablet without cooling. I don’t understand where this idea that Apple has lost most of their chip design talent and is in trouble rhetoric is coming from. Apple still makes the world’s most advanced and efficient consumer chips, years after the M1.

I don't understand what prompted you to bring up the M4 in a meticulously researched deep-dive on the Oryon architecture. The original article doesn't mention it once. Is this just flame bait?

Thank you for saying it out loud. 100%. Seen a handful of very strange top comments this week that you usually wouldn't see on HN, I assume because of the holidays.

i.e. more practicing rhetoric than contributing content, and/or, leaning on rhetorical strategies to do a more traditional definition of trolling circa early 2000s Slashdot. i.e. generate tons of replies by introducing a tangent that'll generate conversation.

Re: Qualcomm's Oryon core: A long time in the making

#115

Post by m463 »

retskrad wrote: post #4

The M4 is the highest single core CPU in the world and it’s in a ridiculously thin tablet without cooling. I don’t understand where this idea that Apple has lost most of their chip design talent and is in trouble rhetoric is coming from. Apple still makes the world’s most advanced and efficient consumer chips, years after the M1.

if you tried to say "Apple still makes the world’s most advanced and efficient chips" instead of qualifying it with "consumer" who would you be cutting out?

I think "consumer" literally means people who consume things, instead of people who create things. Before detouring into "content creators", people who create things are frequently engineers and scientists, who apple does not target.

Unfortunately, I think apple doesn't do general purpose computing. sigh.

Re: Qualcomm's Oryon core: A long time in the making

#116

Post by ggus »

zamadatix wrote: post #15
TylerE wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hasn't each gen been like 20-30% performance? Isn't that better than what AMD and Intel have managed?

"Up to 20-30% faster" or "20-30% faster than M1 released in November 2020. In almost the exact time frame AMD went from Zen3 -> Zen 5 (so one less generation) with a total gain of ~34% multicore and ~59% multicore gain. Intel went from ~10900k to ~14900k for a total of 76% single core and 128% multicore gain (i.e. more than double). Two disclaimers before the conclusion: This is just from one lazy benchmark (Geekbenc…

> ~59% multi-core performance uplift, or an average of ~16% per M* generation.

+59% in 4 years is equivalent to 12% every year. percentages compound exponentially.

Re: Qualcomm's Oryon core: A long time in the making

#117

Post by ben_w »

qwytw wrote: post #86
ben_w wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the things in the press release. AI inference. Editing, not merely watching, video. Ditto audio. Gets more done before the battery runs out. I cannot emphasise strongly enough how niche "compile the Linux kernel" is: to most people, once you've explained what those words mean, this is as mad as saying you don't like a Tesla because you recreationally make your own batteries and Tesla cars don't have a warranty-no…

> I cannot emphasise strongly enough how niche "compile the Linux kernel" You can replace that with compile pretty much any software in general or do any real software development on it which isn't even remotely niche...

I think that even software development in general is pretty niche; about 29 million of us worldwide, putting us significantly behind sex workers (40 million or so), which I get the impression most regard as (at the very least) an unusual profession?

I want to say it's also way behind the number of YouTube channels, but I can't find a citation for the 3rd party claim of "114 million" active channels, though obviously most are not professionals and there's not a 1-1 requirement between channels and people.

Re: Qualcomm's Oryon core: A long time in the making

#118

Post by turtlebits »

Rinzler89 wrote: post #13
retskrad wrote: post #4

The M4 is the highest single core CPU in the world and it’s in a ridiculously thin tablet without cooling. I don’t understand where this idea that Apple has lost most of their chip design talent and is in trouble rhetoric is coming from. Apple still makes the world’s most advanced and efficient consumer chips, years after the M1.

>The M4 is the highest single core CPU in the world and it’s in a ridiculously thin tablet That's kind of the problem. The world's most powerful CPU is put in the world's most expensive and thinnest Netflix machine lol. Was the previous "thicker" M3 iPad holding anyone back? All that power and I can't use it to compile the Linux kernel, I can't use it to play the latest Steam/GOG games, or run CAD simulations, becaus…

The fact that Apple put a fast chip in a limited device doesn't detract from their engineering ability.

Re: Qualcomm's Oryon core: A long time in the making

#119

Post by TylerE »

qwytw wrote: post #94
TylerE wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What increase has intel made over the same time period? Feels like a lot less. CPUs are mature technology.

> Feels like a lot less I think quite a bit more. Meteor Lake seems to have faster ~100% multicore and ~25% single core performance and better battery life.

Still have double the power draw of my entire desktop mac. For a supposed mobile chip. Intel power consumption/heat is terrible

Re: Qualcomm's Oryon core: A long time in the making

#120

Post by phonon »

ggus wrote: post #116
zamadatix wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Up to 20-30% faster" or "20-30% faster than M1 released in November 2020. In almost the exact time frame AMD went from Zen3 -> Zen 5 (so one less generation) with a total gain of ~34% multicore and ~59% multicore gain. Intel went from ~10900k to ~14900k for a total of 76% single core and 128% multicore gain (i.e. more than double). Two disclaimers before the conclusion: This is just from one lazy benchmark (Geekbenc…

> ~59% multi-core performance uplift, or an average of ~16% per M* generation. +59% in 4 years is equivalent to 12% every year. percentages compound exponentially.

What are you correcting?

59% from M1->M4 = 1.59^⅓ = 16.7% increase per generation

No one said "years" either...

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