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Qualcomm's Oryon core: A long time in the making

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Re: Qualcomm's Oryon core: A long time in the making

#91

Post by Rinzler89 »

entropicdrifter wrote: post #55
Rinzler89 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The M4 is the highest single core CPU in the world and it’s in a ridiculously thin tablet That's kind of the problem. The world's most powerful CPU is put in the world's most expensive and thinnest Netflix machine lol. Was the previous "thicker" M3 iPad holding anyone back? All that power and I can't use it to compile the Linux kernel, I can't use it to play the latest Steam/GOG games, or run CAD simulations, becaus…

Asahi Linux runs great on all of the M-series Macs

Yeah, on the Macs, not on the iPad though which is what my comment as talking about, that the M4 chip is just wasted there and only for the flex.

Re: Qualcomm's Oryon core: A long time in the making

#92

Post by Wytwwww »

forrestthewoods wrote: post #37
retskrad wrote: post #4

The M4 is the highest single core CPU in the world and it’s in a ridiculously thin tablet without cooling. I don’t understand where this idea that Apple has lost most of their chip design talent and is in trouble rhetoric is coming from. Apple still makes the world’s most advanced and efficient consumer chips, years after the M1.

> I don’t understand where this idea that Apple has lost most of their chip design talent and is in trouble rhetoric is coming from. Why are you saying this? The article doesn't seem to imply that? Apple isn't in any kind of trouble. But the gap between Apple and the competition does appear to be closing. Right now Apple's biggest advantage is they buy up all of TSMC supply for the latest node. They're always a littl…

> I hope AMD and Nvidia start to release ARM SoC designs for laptops/desktops next year

Or AMD / Intel could just make more power efficient x86 core? What would they gain by switching to ARM?

Also developing a competitive ARM core in less than a year is pretty much impossible, it took Qualcomm several years to catch up with ARMs cores (hence the title...). They even had to buy another company to accomplish that.

Re: Qualcomm's Oryon core: A long time in the making

#93

Post by iforgotpassword »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #70
dagmx wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a very narrow definition of “useful” and one I’d say is rather focused on yourself? Why is Linux the arbiter of what is “useful”? Why would it still be a benchmark flex if it was on macOS, an Os where millions of people do professional work everyday? And why is the iPad just a “Netflix machine” when tons of people use the iPad for professional creative use cases as well?

> And why is the iPad just a “Netflix machine” when tons of people use the iPad for professional creative use cases as well? For my family, the iPhone and other Apple devices are the ultimate productivity machines. The App Store, fantastic. Why? Because they are (rightly) terrified of installing apps on Windows. Or any “computer.” They’ve been burned too many times, warned too many times. Unless it’s Microsoft Office…

> That A10 Fusion powered iPad from 6 years ago stings to use now, even though it was plenty comfortable at the time. 5 years from now, nobody will regret an M4.

Sorry, I've been around for too long to believe this. :)

No matter how big of a milestone, a jump in performance anything ever brought, it never stopped software from eventually using up all the resources available. Just another layer of abstraction, just another framework, just another useless ui gimmick and you'll see that the M4 isn't immune to this either.

Re: Qualcomm's Oryon core: A long time in the making

#94

Post by qwytw »

TylerE wrote: post #20
zamadatix wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These statements are orthogonal though i.e. 2300->3800 is still less than 20% per generation (17% per if you use the exact single core numbers for the M1 vs M4 iPad). That might be meaningful for your workload but it also means 20-30 percent per generation is quite a bit off.

What increase has intel made over the same time period? Feels like a lot less. CPUs are mature technology.

> Feels like a lot less

I think quite a bit more. Meteor Lake seems to have faster ~100% multicore and ~25% single core performance and better battery life.

Re: Qualcomm's Oryon core: A long time in the making

#95

Post by bhouston »

kernal wrote: post #29
bhouston wrote: post #2

From the article it seems like it clones a lot of the Apple M1 technology. So smart acquisition on Qualcomm's part to get competitive again. Apple engineers who worked on the Apple M4 should go start another company so Qualcomm can acquire it again for +1B. :). Or better yet, acquired by ARM themselves. It is likely that as this tech makes it to the smartphone market, Android phones are going to get a major speed boo…

>Android phones are going to get a major speed boost. They have been so uncompetitive against Apple for a while now. Uncompetitive? These numbers indicate otherwise while being on a previous generation TSMC 4nm node. Just imagine if they were on the same 3nm node as the A17. https://nanoreview.net/en/soc-list/rating https://www.androidauthority.com/snapdragon-8-gen-3-vs-apple...

Looking at this chart Apple just destroys the competition:

https://browser.geekbench.com/mobile-benchmarks

Also Apple's mobile devices destroy the competition in this chart as well if you sort by thread:

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/CPU_mega_page.html

Re: Qualcomm's Oryon core: A long time in the making

#96

Post by Rinzler89 »

ben_w wrote: post #59
Rinzler89 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>How many million youtube channels are there, and how exactly do you think that stuff gets made? Magic? Since you asked, they're using Macs and PCs mostly, sometimes Linux too. Rarely iPads though. That's more of a strawmen your building here. And I'm bringing in arguments that X86 and ARM improvements are more important that the M4 chips, because they power the world innovations, and you're bring up editing YouTube…

> Using Macs and PCs mostly, sometimes Linux too. Rarely iPads. That's more of a strawmen your building here. You're arguing as if everyone changes production mode in one go when new hardware arrives. This chip was only released 50 days ago . Your example of "power the world innovations" included "compile Linux kernel" and "play the latest Steam/GOG games". YouTube is more valuable to the world than endlessly recompi…

Since your comments are deviating in the bad faith direction with you trying to score gotchas off of interpretations of various words in my comments, instead of sticking to the chips comparison topic at hand, I will have to stop replying to you as we can't have an objective and sane debate at this point. Peace.

Re: Qualcomm's Oryon core: A long time in the making

#98

Post by evilduck »

treyd wrote: post #58
entropicdrifter wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asahi Linux runs great on all of the M-series Macs

There's a lot of long tail issues with peripherals that still need to be worked out, to be fair. Sound wasn't enabled until fairly recently because they were still testing to ensure the drivers couldn't damage the hardware.

To be fully fair, that's the status quo for Linux on hardware that didn't ship with Linux support as a selling point. I had issues with Intel Wifi 6 hardware compatibility on a Lenovo laptop within the last year or so. On 3 different x86 laptops with fingerprint readers, I've never been able to get any of them to function in Linux. One one of my laptops, the sound works but it's substantially degraded compared to the drivers for Windows on the same hardware. Another supports the USB4 port for data but won't switch to DP alt mode with it, though it works in Windows. On the other hand, my Steam Deck shipped with Linux and everything works great.

Linux not supporting your hardware perfectly is just the nature of the beast. Asahi on Apple hardware meets [very low linux user] expectations.

Re: Qualcomm's Oryon core: A long time in the making

#99

Post by stefan_ »

retskrad wrote: post #4

The M4 is the highest single core CPU in the world and it’s in a ridiculously thin tablet without cooling. I don’t understand where this idea that Apple has lost most of their chip design talent and is in trouble rhetoric is coming from. Apple still makes the world’s most advanced and efficient consumer chips, years after the M1.

I don't understand what prompted you to bring up the M4 in a meticulously researched deep-dive on the Oryon architecture. The original article doesn't mention it once. Is this just flame bait?

Re: Qualcomm's Oryon core: A long time in the making

#100

Post by [deleted] »

TylerE wrote: post #35
Sakos wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I picked the Ars article because they showed real-world performance like encoding. Geekbench scores are difficult to impossible to equate to real-world results. There are ways to measure it properly, but most sites seem to just do Geekbench or something else like it and call it a day. Single-core performance isn't this universal thing. What's your actual workload like? I'm all over the Ryzen x3D CPUs because they hav…

I will say that my M1 Mac runs Factorio like an absolute dream. There is an ARM native port now and it’s really good. It something like doubled UPS over the old Intel binary. One of the big advantages the M chips have is the insanely fast integrated memory, since it’s all right on the die. It’s much closer to ultra high spec GPU ram than PC ram. My M1 studio has 200GB/sec of memory bandwidth. Extant DDR5 modules are…

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