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Qualcomm's Oryon core: A long time in the making

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Re: Qualcomm's Oryon core: A long time in the making

#41

Post by dagmx »

Rinzler89 wrote: post #33
ben_w wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No year will ever be "the year of Linux on the desktop", despite that phrase being so old that if I'd conceived a child when I first heard it, I'd be a grandparent already. The fact that you can't imagine a device being useful until it can compile the Linux kernel etc., that you dismiss it as a "Netflix machine", says more about you than about Apple.

What are most people doing with the iPad that they were being held back by the M3 chip in order for the M4 to be such a game changer for them?

There was no M3 iPad so the question is incorrect.

But if you’re talking compared to the M2, it has a number of updates

1. Significant performance and efficiency gains

2. New GPU with raytracing and mesh shading , and much higher performance.

3. AV1 decode

4. New display controllers required for the new tandem OLED

5. Huge upgrade to the neural engine

I’m sure I’m missing stuff, but the M4 iPad Pro is a legitimate step up from the M2 for capabilities. Unless you fall in the camp of it being just a media consumption device

Re: Qualcomm's Oryon core: A long time in the making

#42

Post by ben_w »

Rinzler89 wrote: post #40
ben_w wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the things in the press release. AI inference. Editing, not merely watching, video. Ditto audio. Gets more done before the battery runs out. I cannot emphasise strongly enough how niche "compile the Linux kernel" is: to most people, once you've explained what those words mean, this is as mad as saying you don't like a Tesla because you recreationally make your own batteries and Tesla cars don't have a warranty-no…

So linux kernel compiling is niche but not editing videos and audio on the iPad? (source, have friends making money in the audio and video industry and none of them use iPads professionally for the M4 to matter, they all use MacBooks or Mac Studios even though they tired iPad pros) And you haven't answered my question. For video and audio editing, were the M3 IPads being held back compared to M4 for it to unlock new…

> So linux kernel compiling is niche but not editing videos and audio on the iPad?

Correct.

How many million youtube channels are there, and how exactly do you think that stuff gets made? Magic?

New chip aimed at them, to make their work lives better.

> And you haven't answered my question

Yes I have. So have others who have replied to you.

Performance.

> were the M3 IPads being held back

Disingenuous. "Held back" implies Apple could have made M4s a year sooner.

Re: Qualcomm's Oryon core: A long time in the making

#43

Post by Rinzler89 »

dagmx wrote: post #41
Rinzler89 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are most people doing with the iPad that they were being held back by the M3 chip in order for the M4 to be such a game changer for them?

There was no M3 iPad so the question is incorrect. But if you’re talking compared to the M2, it has a number of updates 1. Significant performance and efficiency gains 2. New GPU with raytracing and mesh shading , and much higher performance. 3. AV1 decode 4. New display controllers required for the new tandem OLED 5. Huge upgrade to the neural engine I’m sure I’m missing stuff, but the M4 iPad Pro is a legitimate st…

Sure, those are nice improvements, no question about it, but none of those change the iPad fundaments or unlock new possibilities for it, which is that it wasn't previously compute limited but limited by iPad OS. It's also not just my opinion but almost all users who reviewed the M4 iPad Pro, like MKBHD, calling it a overpriced Netflix machine.

Re: Qualcomm's Oryon core: A long time in the making

#44

Post by gessha »

Rinzler89 wrote: post #33
ben_w wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No year will ever be "the year of Linux on the desktop", despite that phrase being so old that if I'd conceived a child when I first heard it, I'd be a grandparent already. The fact that you can't imagine a device being useful until it can compile the Linux kernel etc., that you dismiss it as a "Netflix machine", says more about you than about Apple.

What are most people doing with the iPad that they were being held back by the M3 chip in order for the M4 to be such a game changer for them?

It’s not a game changer, never meant to be. Apple updates the hardware, shows you the possibilities and charges you an arm and a leg for it. What you do with it is your own business *

Another thing is you’re comparing apples to oranges. iPads aren’t meant to be used in that way and if you want to do it anyway you have to hack your way there. You should be perfectly capable of compiling the Linux kernel on their more general purpose machine - the Mac.

* within the limitations of the iPad AppStore

Re: Qualcomm's Oryon core: A long time in the making

#45

Post by Rinzler89 »

gessha wrote: post #44
Rinzler89 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are most people doing with the iPad that they were being held back by the M3 chip in order for the M4 to be such a game changer for them?

It’s not a game changer, never meant to be. Apple updates the hardware, shows you the possibilities and charges you an arm and a leg for it. What you do with it is your own business * Another thing is you’re comparing apples to oranges. iPads aren’t meant to be used in that way and if you want to do it anyway you have to hack your way there. You should be perfectly capable of compiling the Linux kernel on their more…

> iPads aren’t meant to be used in that way

Correct, and if they're only meant to be used within the restrictive limitation of the AppStore then who cares about them, other than the small market of iPad OS AppStore users, most of which don't even used the full potential of the M3/M2 on their iPads let alone need the M4?

Chips from Intel, AMD, NVidia, etc are big news because since they're generic compute chips, so they unlock new uses cases and research that can improve or even change the world, not just run IOS apps a bit faster.

For example, do you think those Apple EEs are using iPads to design the M4 chips or X86/Mac computers?

Re: Qualcomm's Oryon core: A long time in the making

#46

Post by Rinzler89 »

ben_w wrote: post #42
Rinzler89 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So linux kernel compiling is niche but not editing videos and audio on the iPad? (source, have friends making money in the audio and video industry and none of them use iPads professionally for the M4 to matter, they all use MacBooks or Mac Studios even though they tired iPad pros) And you haven't answered my question. For video and audio editing, were the M3 IPads being held back compared to M4 for it to unlock new…

> So linux kernel compiling is niche but not editing videos and audio on the iPad? Correct. How many million youtube channels are there, and how exactly do you think that stuff gets made? Magic? New chip aimed at them, to make their work lives better. > And you haven't answered my question Yes I have. So have others who have replied to you. Performance. > were the M3 IPads being held back Disingenuous. "Held back" im…

>How many million youtube channels are there, and how exactly do you think that stuff gets made? Magic?

Since you asked, they're using Macs and PCs mostly, sometimes Linux too. Rarely iPads though. That's more of a strawmen your building here.

And I'm bringing in arguments that X86 and ARM improvements are more important that the M4 chips, because they power the world innovations, and you're bring up editing YouTube videos on iPads as an argument for why the M4 is such a big deal. I rest my case.

>Disingenuous. "Held back" implies Apple could have made M4s a year sooner.

I never said or meant such a thing, you're just making up stuff up at this point to stoke the fire and that's why I'll end the conversation with you here.

Re: Qualcomm's Oryon core: A long time in the making

#47

Post by dagmx »

Rinzler89 wrote: post #43
dagmx wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was no M3 iPad so the question is incorrect. But if you’re talking compared to the M2, it has a number of updates 1. Significant performance and efficiency gains 2. New GPU with raytracing and mesh shading , and much higher performance. 3. AV1 decode 4. New display controllers required for the new tandem OLED 5. Huge upgrade to the neural engine I’m sure I’m missing stuff, but the M4 iPad Pro is a legitimate st…

Sure, those are nice improvements, no question about it, but none of those change the iPad fundaments or unlock new possibilities for it, which is that it wasn't previously compute limited but limited by iPad OS. It's also not just my opinion but almost all users who reviewed the M4 iPad Pro, like MKBHD, calling it a overpriced Netflix machine.

I mean, if your question is “what new capabilities did it unlock?” then doesn’t that apply to the whole CPU market? Did any of the stuff you mentioned you do has fundamentally changed in desktop in the last decade +.

People like faster and snappier things. Along with that the new hardware unlocks the use of tandem oleds which is a big change for HDR creation and color accuracy. They go hand in hand.

A lot of people create on iPads. I used to work in film and almost all my concept art friends have shifted over to iPad. A lot of my on set friends use it for on set management of content, visualization and rushes.

The reviewers you mentioned don’t use the device that way. Would I similarly be right in taking their opinion about how niche it is to run Linux?

Like this argument you’re proposing just boils down to “it doesn’t solve my needs and therefore I can’t imagine it solving other people’s needs”

Re: Qualcomm's Oryon core: A long time in the making

#48

Post by monocasa »

Rinzler89 wrote: post #13
retskrad wrote: post #4

The M4 is the highest single core CPU in the world and it’s in a ridiculously thin tablet without cooling. I don’t understand where this idea that Apple has lost most of their chip design talent and is in trouble rhetoric is coming from. Apple still makes the world’s most advanced and efficient consumer chips, years after the M1.

>The M4 is the highest single core CPU in the world and it’s in a ridiculously thin tablet That's kind of the problem. The world's most powerful CPU is put in the world's most expensive and thinnest Netflix machine lol. Was the previous "thicker" M3 iPad holding anyone back? All that power and I can't use it to compile the Linux kernel, I can't use it to play the latest Steam/GOG games, or run CAD simulations, becaus…

To a degree, that makes sense. Due to the end of dennard scaling, most high end raw compute makes more sense as more but simpler cores, and has for a long time. For instance the blue gene supercomputers made of tons of pretty individually anemic PowerPC 4xx cores.

For battery powered devices, race to sleep is the current meta, where once you have some bit of heavy compute work, you power up a big core, run it fast to get through all of the work as quickly as possible, and get back to low power as quickly as possible.

Re: Qualcomm's Oryon core: A long time in the making

#49

Post by ben_w »

Rinzler89 wrote: post #43
dagmx wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was no M3 iPad so the question is incorrect. But if you’re talking compared to the M2, it has a number of updates 1. Significant performance and efficiency gains 2. New GPU with raytracing and mesh shading , and much higher performance. 3. AV1 decode 4. New display controllers required for the new tandem OLED 5. Huge upgrade to the neural engine I’m sure I’m missing stuff, but the M4 iPad Pro is a legitimate st…

Sure, those are nice improvements, no question about it, but none of those change the iPad fundaments or unlock new possibilities for it, which is that it wasn't previously compute limited but limited by iPad OS. It's also not just my opinion but almost all users who reviewed the M4 iPad Pro, like MKBHD, calling it a overpriced Netflix machine.

> like MKBHD, calling it a overpriced Netflix machine.

I've not seen that quote anywhere.

Google no longer actually finding quotes no longer means the quote isn't present on the internet, so do you have a citation for that?

Re: Qualcomm's Oryon core: A long time in the making

#50

Post by sitkack »

Rinzler89 wrote: post #13
retskrad wrote: post #4

The M4 is the highest single core CPU in the world and it’s in a ridiculously thin tablet without cooling. I don’t understand where this idea that Apple has lost most of their chip design talent and is in trouble rhetoric is coming from. Apple still makes the world’s most advanced and efficient consumer chips, years after the M1.

>The M4 is the highest single core CPU in the world and it’s in a ridiculously thin tablet That's kind of the problem. The world's most powerful CPU is put in the world's most expensive and thinnest Netflix machine lol. Was the previous "thicker" M3 iPad holding anyone back? All that power and I can't use it to compile the Linux kernel, I can't use it to play the latest Steam/GOG games, or run CAD simulations, becaus…

I run Linux in a VM on my M1 mac all day long. That VM was the fastest Linux instance I had anywhere. Faster the my 5950 and way faster than anything in cloud. Your can't using it is your choice.
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