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Qualcomm's Oryon core: A long time in the making

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Re: Qualcomm's Oryon core: A long time in the making

#31

Post by runjake »

Rinzler89 wrote: post #13
retskrad wrote: post #4

The M4 is the highest single core CPU in the world and it’s in a ridiculously thin tablet without cooling. I don’t understand where this idea that Apple has lost most of their chip design talent and is in trouble rhetoric is coming from. Apple still makes the world’s most advanced and efficient consumer chips, years after the M1.

>The M4 is the highest single core CPU in the world and it’s in a ridiculously thin tablet That's kind of the problem. The world's most powerful CPU is put in the world's most expensive and thinnest Netflix machine lol. Was the previous "thicker" M3 iPad holding anyone back? All that power and I can't use it to compile the Linux kernel, I can't use it to play the latest Steam/GOG games, or run CAD simulations, becaus…

It's not just a benchmark flex. I have been using Linux since 1992, for many or most of those years on both desktop and server. I am currently more productive while on an Apple Silicon Mac.

I would venture to guess that for most people, they would be more productive on a Mac or an iPad versus Linux.

Pedantry: To my knowledge, there was no M3 iPad.

Re: Qualcomm's Oryon core: A long time in the making

#32

Post by ben_w »

Rinzler89 wrote: post #13
retskrad wrote: post #4

The M4 is the highest single core CPU in the world and it’s in a ridiculously thin tablet without cooling. I don’t understand where this idea that Apple has lost most of their chip design talent and is in trouble rhetoric is coming from. Apple still makes the world’s most advanced and efficient consumer chips, years after the M1.

>The M4 is the highest single core CPU in the world and it’s in a ridiculously thin tablet That's kind of the problem. The world's most powerful CPU is put in the world's most expensive and thinnest Netflix machine lol. Was the previous "thicker" M3 iPad holding anyone back? All that power and I can't use it to compile the Linux kernel, I can't use it to play the latest Steam/GOG games, or run CAD simulations, becaus…

No year will ever be "the year of Linux on the desktop", despite that phrase being so old that if I'd conceived a child when I first heard it, I'd be a grandparent already.

The fact that you can't imagine a device being useful until it can compile the Linux kernel etc., that you dismiss it as a "Netflix machine", says more about you than about Apple.

Re: Qualcomm's Oryon core: A long time in the making

#33

Post by Rinzler89 »

ben_w wrote: post #32
Rinzler89 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The M4 is the highest single core CPU in the world and it’s in a ridiculously thin tablet That's kind of the problem. The world's most powerful CPU is put in the world's most expensive and thinnest Netflix machine lol. Was the previous "thicker" M3 iPad holding anyone back? All that power and I can't use it to compile the Linux kernel, I can't use it to play the latest Steam/GOG games, or run CAD simulations, becaus…

No year will ever be "the year of Linux on the desktop", despite that phrase being so old that if I'd conceived a child when I first heard it, I'd be a grandparent already. The fact that you can't imagine a device being useful until it can compile the Linux kernel etc., that you dismiss it as a "Netflix machine", says more about you than about Apple.

What are most people doing with the iPad that they were being held back by the M3 chip in order for the M4 to be such a game changer for them?

Re: Qualcomm's Oryon core: A long time in the making

#34

Post by oldpersonintx »

TylerE wrote: post #20
zamadatix wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These statements are orthogonal though i.e. 2300->3800 is still less than 20% per generation (17% per if you use the exact single core numbers for the M1 vs M4 iPad). That might be meaningful for your workload but it also means 20-30 percent per generation is quite a bit off.

What increase has intel made over the same time period? Feels like a lot less. CPUs are mature technology.

[dead]

Re: Qualcomm's Oryon core: A long time in the making

#35

Post by TylerE »

Sakos wrote: post #21
bhouston wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1i5dBe_rsiNaQATH-D-Pj... Single core performance went from 2300 with the M1 to 3800 with the M4. That is a huge improvement for my workflow (large TypeScript mono repositories) which is dependent a lot of single core performance (even with parallel builds, because one rarely re-builds everything, rather hot reloads.)

I picked the Ars article because they showed real-world performance like encoding. Geekbench scores are difficult to impossible to equate to real-world results. There are ways to measure it properly, but most sites seem to just do Geekbench or something else like it and call it a day. Single-core performance isn't this universal thing. What's your actual workload like? I'm all over the Ryzen x3D CPUs because they hav…

I will say that my M1 Mac runs Factorio like an absolute dream. There is an ARM native port now and it’s really good. It something like doubled UPS over the old Intel binary.

One of the big advantages the M chips have is the insanely fast integrated memory, since it’s all right on the die. It’s much closer to ultra high spec GPU ram than PC ram.

My M1 studio has 200GB/sec of memory bandwidth. Extant DDR5 modules are under 50GB/sec

Re: Qualcomm's Oryon core: A long time in the making

#36

Post by Rinzler89 »

runjake wrote: post #31
Rinzler89 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The M4 is the highest single core CPU in the world and it’s in a ridiculously thin tablet That's kind of the problem. The world's most powerful CPU is put in the world's most expensive and thinnest Netflix machine lol. Was the previous "thicker" M3 iPad holding anyone back? All that power and I can't use it to compile the Linux kernel, I can't use it to play the latest Steam/GOG games, or run CAD simulations, becaus…

It's not just a benchmark flex. I have been using Linux since 1992, for many or most of those years on both desktop and server. I am currently more productive while on an Apple Silicon Mac. I would venture to guess that for most people, they would be more productive on a Mac or an iPad versus Linux. Pedantry: To my knowledge, there was no M3 iPad.

The question from me was whether the M4 makes iPad users more productive vs the M3 iPad or whatever the last chip was, not if the iPad itself make you more productive than Linux or window s.

And since people keep bringing up the M4 as the yardstick in discussions on generic X86 and Qualcomm chips, then my productivity metric for comparison was also meant in a global generic way, as in the general purpose compute chips like x86 and Nvidia have unlocked new innovations and improvements to our lives over decades being able to run code from specialty aerospace, CAD, earthquake prediction, to protein folding for vaccines and medical use because you could run anything on those chips from YouTube to Fortnite to mainframes and supercomputers. What similar improvements to humanity does the M4 iPad bring when it can only run apps off the AppStore compared to M3, most used iPAd apps being YouTube and Netflix?

As long as the most cutting edge MX chips are restricted to running only Apple approved AppStore apps because Apple is addicted to the 30% AppStore tax that they can't charge on their laptops running MacOS/Linux with the same chips, then they're relatively useless chips for humanity in the grand scheme of things in comparisons with X86 and Arm who make the world go round, power research and innovation because they can run anything you can think of despite scoring a bit lower benchmarks.

Re: Qualcomm's Oryon core: A long time in the making

#37

Post by forrestthewoods »

retskrad wrote: post #4

The M4 is the highest single core CPU in the world and it’s in a ridiculously thin tablet without cooling. I don’t understand where this idea that Apple has lost most of their chip design talent and is in trouble rhetoric is coming from. Apple still makes the world’s most advanced and efficient consumer chips, years after the M1.

> I don’t understand where this idea that Apple has lost most of their chip design talent and is in trouble rhetoric is coming from.

Why are you saying this? The article doesn't seem to imply that?

Apple isn't in any kind of trouble. But the gap between Apple and the competition does appear to be closing. Right now Apple's biggest advantage is they buy up all of TSMC supply for the latest node. They're always a little faster because they're always a node ahead.

Qualcomm Snapdragon X Elite is reasonably impressive from a CPU and x86 emulation perspective. The GPU hardware seems kinda sorta ok. But their GPU drivers are dog poop. Which is why they suck for Windows gaming.

I hope AMD and Nvidia start to release ARM SoC designs for laptops/desktops next year. That could get interesting fast. All hail competition!

Re: Qualcomm's Oryon core: A long time in the making

#38

Post by ben_w »

Rinzler89 wrote: post #33
ben_w wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No year will ever be "the year of Linux on the desktop", despite that phrase being so old that if I'd conceived a child when I first heard it, I'd be a grandparent already. The fact that you can't imagine a device being useful until it can compile the Linux kernel etc., that you dismiss it as a "Netflix machine", says more about you than about Apple.

What are most people doing with the iPad that they were being held back by the M3 chip in order for the M4 to be such a game changer for them?

All the things in the press release.

AI inference. Editing, not merely watching, video. Ditto audio. Gets more done before the battery runs out.

I cannot emphasise strongly enough how niche "compile the Linux kernel" is: to most people, once you've explained what those words mean, this is as mad as saying you don't like a Tesla because you recreationally make your own batteries and Tesla cars don't have a warranty-not-void method to let you just stick those in.

Re: Qualcomm's Oryon core: A long time in the making

#39

Post by surajrmal »

wmf wrote: post #25
assassinator42 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been confused by this, aren't these systems using ACPI instead of Device Tree? I know AWS ARM systems use ACPI.

Qualcomm is using device tree.

I believe it supports both, however only uses acpi when booting windows.

Re: Qualcomm's Oryon core: A long time in the making

#40

Post by Rinzler89 »

ben_w wrote: post #38
Rinzler89 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are most people doing with the iPad that they were being held back by the M3 chip in order for the M4 to be such a game changer for them?

All the things in the press release. AI inference. Editing, not merely watching, video. Ditto audio. Gets more done before the battery runs out. I cannot emphasise strongly enough how niche "compile the Linux kernel" is: to most people, once you've explained what those words mean, this is as mad as saying you don't like a Tesla because you recreationally make your own batteries and Tesla cars don't have a warranty-no…

So linux kernel compiling is niche but not editing videos and audio on the iPad? (source, have friends making money in the audio and video industry and none of them use iPads professionally for the M4 to matter, they all use MacBooks or Mac Studios even though they tired iPad pros)

And you haven't answered my question. For video and audio editing, were the M3 IPads being held back compared to M4 for it to unlock new possibilities that couldn't have been done before and convince new users to switch to iPads?

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