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Scientists discover a cause of lupus, possible way to reverse it

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Re: Scientists discover a cause of lupus, possible way to reverse it

#121

Post by fasa99 »

zeagle wrote: post #71

This group presented an abstract at ACR in the fall prior so it's nice to see it published now. https://acrabstracts.org/abstract/cxcl13-t-cell-differentiat... if you don't have journal access to the Nature article. Kudos to them for landing a nature publication but I really would temper this level of excitement (??a top link on HN??) at a basic science research publication discussed in a press release from a univers…

Exactly. When our car doesn't run well, a car with perhaps 20,000 parts, we take it to the mechanic who says "yup, issue was your spark plug, fixed". And even then, of course, the car issue may have been multifactorial. Maybe the spark plug failed because the fuel/air mix was off, for example, the spark plug was the symptom.

But then we leap from the car with 20,000 parts to a body with a trillion cells each cell with a trillion molecules. The calculus of the fuel/air mix and the spark plug has now been blown out of proportion, as challenging as conceiving a 20 dimensional manifold or the size of the universe. And so my reservation with a paper like this, and in general, is people say, "yup, sure was the spark plug" and then get accolades and a Nature paper, when the core issue was the air fuel mix, the air fuel mix that is, times a trillion cells, times a trillion molecules.

And I can't blame the authors. No shame in shooting for Nature and succeeding. No shame in these simplistic models, each one takes us a step further. But somewhere along the lines we're going to have think about the R&D of the big picture in non-hand-wavey ways.

Re: Scientists discover a cause of lupus, possible way to reverse it

#122

Post by _Adam »

fasa99 wrote: post #121
zeagle wrote: post #71

This group presented an abstract at ACR in the fall prior so it's nice to see it published now. https://acrabstracts.org/abstract/cxcl13-t-cell-differentiat... if you don't have journal access to the Nature article. Kudos to them for landing a nature publication but I really would temper this level of excitement (??a top link on HN??) at a basic science research publication discussed in a press release from a univers…

Exactly. When our car doesn't run well, a car with perhaps 20,000 parts, we take it to the mechanic who says "yup, issue was your spark plug, fixed". And even then, of course, the car issue may have been multifactorial. Maybe the spark plug failed because the fuel/air mix was off, for example, the spark plug was the symptom. But then we leap from the car with 20,000 parts to a body with a trillion cells each cell wit…

> But somewhere along the lines we're going to have think about the R&D of the big picture in non-hand-wavey ways.

How?

Re: Scientists discover a cause of lupus, possible way to reverse it

#124

Post by weberer »

ta988 wrote: post #118
rpaddock wrote: post #113

The Nightshade family of plants, which are very common in our diets, can mimic the symptoms of Lupus. That food sensitivity needs ruled out when diagnosing the cause of Lupus.

Do you have research that shows that? What I've read is that there was no real evidence of that.

He's likely referring to solanine poisoning.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solanine

Re: Scientists discover a cause of lupus, possible way to reverse it

#125

Post by dpeckett »

ta988 wrote: post #117
dpeckett wrote: post #94

Fascinating stuff, it's interesting to read that the main ligands of the AhR (Aryl hydrocarbon receptor) are PAHs (Polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons) and that activation of the AhR receptor improves the markers of Lupus. Polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons are nasty, carcinogenic, molecules that are commonly found in smoke, tar, and char. Basically burnt organic matter. On the other side of the coin AhR is also activated…

Smoking is supposed to be a risk factor so who knows.

Man biology is weird, yeh it looks like for Lupus and Psoriasis it pretty much doubles the risk of developing it.

Re: Scientists discover a cause of lupus, possible way to reverse it

#126

Post by aroopchandra »

I was diagnosed with lupus a few years ago. My mom also had it and passed away after 10 years due to complications. My initial symptoms were severe joint pains, which made daily activities difficult. This happened during the COVID lockdown, which helped me maintain my job.

I did a lot of research and tried various treatments. Functional medicines and expensive vitamins didn’t help. I read about long-term fasting and tried different routines at home. I did several 1-day, 3-day, and 7-day fasts. During the 7-day fasts, my pain disappeared, but it returned once I resumed eating. This led me to believe that food was causing inflammation.

Previously, I ate a lot of lean meat and occasional red meat. I then cut down to eating meat once a week and ate mostly raw leafy vegetables the rest of the time. My pain would come back after eating meat and decrease over the week. I eventually stopped eating meat entirely and consumed a ton on greens, and within six weeks, I was pain-free.

I also tried Benlysta for months, but it didn’t help much. Vegetables seemed to reduce my inflammation more effectively. I stopped taking Benlysta but continued regular blood tests. After a year, my doctor agreed I could stop the medication. I’ve been in remission for the last two years with no pain or inflammation.

I hope this helps, though it’s just my personal experience.

Re: Scientists discover a cause of lupus, possible way to reverse it

#127

Post by eszed »

thenerdhead wrote: post #27
ipunchghosts wrote: post #2

I wonder if any of these findings help us better understand me/cfs.

Very likely. All of these illnesses are diseases of the cells. We're entering the golden age of immune cell science. You figure out what immune cells are causing disease and how to restore them. Here the T cells are imbalanced and a specific protein is found to regulate the imbalance but the interferon is countering the protein's effects. Now you can target that in many ways and run all sorts of clinical trials.

It seems to me that as we've gone layers deeper into organic processes we've repeatedly recapitulated Galenic theory: "rebalancing" more and more precisely-targeted "humours". Not saying this is bad - in fact, quite the contrary: it seems like a necessary stage on the way to more-sophisticated mechanitistic understanding.

Re: Scientists discover a cause of lupus, possible way to reverse it

#128

Post by maximz »

zeagle wrote: post #74
atombender wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The aryl hydrocarbon receptor (AhR), which is key to this discovery, appears to be super relevant to psoriasis, another autoimmune disease. AhR has been known for a long time, but it seems it's been somewhat mysterious until a series of recent breakthroughs. In 2022, an AhR inhibitor called tapinarof, sold as VTAMA, was launched, and has shown itself to be one of the most effective treatments for psoriasis to date. I…

This is a great response. I tapped out something longer about not being as particularly impressed with the paper and the headline here on HN, but as an rheumatologist just wanted to say your last two paragraphs well said.

Hi @zeagle, sorry to hijack the thread (didn’t see a way to DM you)

I'm a PhD student working on a new lupus diagnostic blood test approach [1]. Hoping to steer the project towards true clinical needs.

I'd love to ask for your feedback as a technologist + rheumatologist on a few lupus + RA diagnostic directions we're considering. Would they actually be useful in your practice?

Would you be open to a quick chat? My email is maximz@stanford.edu.

Many thanks!

[1] https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.04.26.489314v5

Re: Scientists discover a cause of lupus, possible way to reverse it

#129

Post by aftbit »

_Adam wrote: post #122
fasa99 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. When our car doesn't run well, a car with perhaps 20,000 parts, we take it to the mechanic who says "yup, issue was your spark plug, fixed". And even then, of course, the car issue may have been multifactorial. Maybe the spark plug failed because the fuel/air mix was off, for example, the spark plug was the symptom. But then we leap from the car with 20,000 parts to a body with a trillion cells each cell wit…

> But somewhere along the lines we're going to have think about the R&D of the big picture in non-hand-wavey ways. How?

Superintelligence

Re: Scientists discover a cause of lupus, possible way to reverse it

#130

Post by aroopchandra »

notheyarent wrote: post #86

they aren’t cell diseases. It is plant toxins either leaking into the blood stream through intestinal permeability or a problem with peoples livers being fatty and not able to do their job anymore resulting in the bodies inability to remove plant toxins. The toxins cause an immune reaction wherever they build up , rheumatoid arthritis if it’s the joints of the legs and arms etc. Plant toxins include pesticides, fungi…

For me, it was the opposite. Cutting out meat and eating a lot of organic greens helped calm my immune system and reduce inflammation. In my experience, meat increased my inflammation, while greens decreased it. I think everyone is different, and it's not hard to test on yourself if you have noticeable symptoms like joint pain, as I did.
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