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I am a developer, yet I outsource the development of my startup

aymeric.gaurat.net

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Re: I am a developer, yet I outsource the development of my startup

#31

Post by aymeric »

sanj wrote: post #29

Brilliant. I did the same thing -- http://outletmapper.com Some learnings: 1. It really does free up your head to think about harder issues (read: getting in front of the right market) if you're not distracted by code. For me, code is "my happy place", so it is too easy to spend too much time there. 2. I asked hard questions when picking someone to work with. Not just "have you used MapKit" but "how would you do hit…

#4

How detailed are your test cases? Do you have a sample document, I am interested to have a look at it.

#6 If you're in the US, hire US.

Mmm I disagree with this. I think the risk that someone decides to steal your idea or code and go run their own business are fairly low. I accept to take this risk to be able to reach developers that I will pay 4 to 5 times less than the local developers in my country.

Re: I am a developer, yet I outsource the development of my startup

#32

Post by aymeric »

danso wrote: post #3

Very cool, I appreciated especially the detail that the OP goes into. I also liked the way he phrased the problem...he isn't outsourcing because he hates developing, but because he loves it too much. Never thought about it that way but on reflection, that is why I haven't outsourced the things I like to do.

You still need to have fun though, don't outsource everything :)

Re: I am a developer, yet I outsource the development of my startup

#33

Post by aymeric »

dustyreagan wrote: post #4

I wonder what the general opinion is on legal protection (such signing a contractor agreement) when working with someone in another country. I figure it must be hard to enforce, and you'd mainly be working based on trust. But, it seems like having some sort of legal agreement in place, regardless of how difficult it would be to enforce, would be prudent. Anyone have experience with this?

If you go via oDesk, each contract automatically incudes an NDA agreement.

What kind of protection are you talking about?

Re: I am a developer, yet I outsource the development of my startup

#34

Post by aymeric »

alttab wrote: post #2

I can see why this wouldn't directly apply to most people: 1) Most bootstrappers don't have the money to pay someone else full time. 2) Most bootstrappers don't have enough experience to know what to build themselves, much less be able to communicate to someone else to do it. 3) Most developers without years of experience are overconfident in their ability to communicate and manage people. Glad it has worked for this…

1) Yes you are correct, I am lucky that I keep my expenses low and that I can charge a good rate to my clients. But as it has been pointed out many times, consulting while bootstrapping is a big distraction. But for me, it is also a way to socialize and stay sane by reminding me that I am still an able developer even when my startup is not doing great.

3) Yes, this is something that you learn overtime. Start small, start now :) I have written this article that presents a way to start outsourcing for a lower cost than development : http://47hats.com/2011/07/outsourcing-101-for-startup-founde...

Re: I am a developer, yet I outsource the development of my startup

#35

Post by aymeric »

Sambdala wrote: post #15

For any project that you want to pivot or extend substantially beyond your first iteration, this seems very risky as you might end up with code that has bad commenting, indecipherable, or needs to be completely rewritten before you can either work on it yourself or pass it on to another developer. I would imagine, in most cases, building the MVP yourself and then bringing in an Odesk developer to add functionality is…

Yes, my project was already mature.

But keep in mind that it is very easy to do code reviews nowadays. GitHub or BitBucket give you a nice interface to follow your developer commits. You can comment on them early on to educate your developer on your coding standards.

Re: I am a developer, yet I outsource the development of my startup

#36

Post by maratd »

nlh wrote: post #21

I'll share a similar (positive) experience I had a few years ago. I'm not quite what I'd call a developer, but I'm a company founder who's "code savvy". I made the decision to outsource the development of a moderately big PHP project a few years ago -- I went through a LOT of profiles on oDesk and finally settled on a guy (who billed about $30/hr, which was on the high end for non-US guys on oDesk). He was _terrific_…

> My only frustrations were things that, unfortunately, can happen with outsourced work -- timing. My guy was an A developer, but a B/C time manager. So the project took about 2x as long as it should have.

So technically, he billed at $60 an hour. And that is the issue with outsourcing. A local guy in your office might have gotten things done in half the time and cost you just as much.

There is another issue with timing ... and that's the time zone differences. There will always be a delay between a request and the work actually starting. If the time zone difference is large enough, you'll be forced to work by email. If there's an emergency, well, you get the picture.

Re: I am a developer, yet I outsource the development of my startup

#37

Post by aymeric »

gregcor wrote: post #7

Very clever post, but this is little more than very well crafted marketing material. This IS his marketing effort, and for some reason I'd be surprised if he didn't use outsourced labor to build his outsourcing site. He wants this arrangement to be successful, and he's going to blog about its success whether or not the code is any good at all.

I have developed an outsourcing marketplace because I found a "niche" where I think I can add value, I am a mix of an entrepreneur and traveller, this helps me understand why people in other countries can be very talented and yet very cheap. I believe entrepeneurs misjudge outsourcing and my mission is to help educate them on this topic. It is only normal that I write blog posts about outsourcing.

I am not expecting to get rich overnight by being #2 on Hacker News.

Did you get any value out of this article?

Re: I am a developer, yet I outsource the development of my startup

#38

Post by aymeric »

_delirium wrote: post #8
gregcor wrote: post #7

Very clever post, but this is little more than very well crafted marketing material. This IS his marketing effort, and for some reason I'd be surprised if he didn't use outsourced labor to build his outsourcing site. He wants this arrangement to be successful, and he's going to blog about its success whether or not the code is any good at all.

I hadn't seen that initially, but I agree that makes it seem a bit suspicious. A testimonial to the benefits of outsourcing by someone running an site advertising "frictionless outsourcing" is not exactly a disinterested analysis; sort of like a whitepaper on outsourcing from Accenture. Doesn't mean it's wrong , but does, I agree, mean that he probably intended the writeup to be positive, even before starting.

What do you think of the founder of Visual Website Optimizer when he writes awesome articles about A/B testing or from the founder of GitHub when he writes about how software development is done at GitHub.

The books "Getting Real" from 37Signals and "Crush It" from Gary speaks about the benefits of educating your customers. I believe it is a great way to market without feeling like a spammer.

Re: I am a developer, yet I outsource the development of my startup

#39

Post by [deleted] »

aymeric wrote: post #38
_delirium wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hadn't seen that initially, but I agree that makes it seem a bit suspicious. A testimonial to the benefits of outsourcing by someone running an site advertising "frictionless outsourcing" is not exactly a disinterested analysis; sort of like a whitepaper on outsourcing from Accenture. Doesn't mean it's wrong , but does, I agree, mean that he probably intended the writeup to be positive, even before starting.

What do you think of the founder of Visual Website Optimizer when he writes awesome articles about A/B testing or from the founder of GitHub when he writes about how software development is done at GitHub. The books "Getting Real" from 37Signals and "Crush It" from Gary speaks about the benefits of educating your customers. I believe it is a great way to market without feeling like a spammer.

[deleted]

Re: I am a developer, yet I outsource the development of my startup

#40

Post by sanj »

aymeric wrote: post #31
sanj wrote: post #29

Brilliant. I did the same thing -- http://outletmapper.com Some learnings: 1. It really does free up your head to think about harder issues (read: getting in front of the right market) if you're not distracted by code. For me, code is "my happy place", so it is too easy to spend too much time there. 2. I asked hard questions when picking someone to work with. Not just "have you used MapKit" but "how would you do hit…

#4 How detailed are your test cases? Do you have a sample document, I am interested to have a look at it. #6 If you're in the US, hire US. Mmm I disagree with this. I think the risk that someone decides to steal your idea or code and go run their own business are fairly low. I accept to take this risk to be able to reach developers that I will pay 4 to 5 times less than the local developers in my country.

#4 I created an artificial outlet mall data file with all of my weird edge cases.

#6 I don't want my job outsourced. That starts at home. More generally, when I'm in a position to be an employer, I try to be of the sort that I would want to be employed by.

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