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Tokyo's oldest train line – in pictures

theguardian.com

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Re: Tokyo's oldest train line – in pictures

#41

Post by shiroiushi »

numpad0 wrote: post #38
mym1990 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kind of expected this response. Sometimes self reflection is also an option.

I kind of get the snark, but I'm also not sure of an alternative. Extreme population density of Tokyo likely owe a lot to acquired ignorance. No way our brains don't go total schezophrenic being highly social all day long inside the Yamanote loop.

There's no real alternative: you either stare at people's shoes, or the ceiling, or you stare at your phone. The trains are crowded so it's basically impossible (during those times of the day) to look anywhere else, and staring at people is rude. Looking out the window isn't practical either: the seats are facing inwards, and there's people on the other side blocking the opposite window.

Re: Tokyo's oldest train line – in pictures

#42

Post by anigbrowl »

renewiltord wrote: post #4
darknavi wrote: post #2

If you've ever stayed in the heart of Tokyo you know the JR Yamanote line well. What a feat for Japan to have it. I always thought trains (light rail, high speed, what ever) were so much better than cars. Have more traffic? Just add more trains, no extra rails needed. Yamanote line rush hour showed me how effective that is AND how you might need more rail eventually. Rush hour had a train there every ~2 minutes and t…

It's great to use as a tourist. Very easy to get where you want and top notch frequency. One thing I thought was interesting is that transit advocates in the California I was visiting from push for free transit and transit sucks balls here while Japan generally was fee-paid transit and their transit ruled. I frequently travel to Hong Kong and I moved to California from London and so I looked them up and they hadn't t…

IT's irrational to argue that free transit is why CA transit is so bad, given that it's not free now.

Re: Tokyo's oldest train line – in pictures

#43

Post by golergka »

darknavi wrote: post #2

If you've ever stayed in the heart of Tokyo you know the JR Yamanote line well. What a feat for Japan to have it. I always thought trains (light rail, high speed, what ever) were so much better than cars. Have more traffic? Just add more trains, no extra rails needed. Yamanote line rush hour showed me how effective that is AND how you might need more rail eventually. Rush hour had a train there every ~2 minutes and t…

> I always thought trains (light rail, high speed, what ever) were so much better than cars.

Do you honestly think that standing in a crowd with other people's smell all over you is better than being in your personal space, with music and AC turned to your taste, alone, sitting in a comfortable place that you adjusted for yourself?

You must be the kind of person who thinks bland rice and unseasoned chicken breasts are better than all other foods, just because of how price-efficient they are.

Re: Tokyo's oldest train line – in pictures

#44

Post by Pufferbo »

nox101 wrote: post #22

AFAIK Yamanote Line is not the oldest line. Maybe oldest still in service? There's a train statue at Shimbashi station that I believe commemorates the first line in Japan to/from Yokohama https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:JNR_C11_292_Shinbashi_S... The original station is here https://www.ejrcf.or.jp/shinbashi/index.html just a few blocks from Shimbashi station. They built a new building there thoug the original p…

I wonder if it’s just the first “rail”. The Ginza-sen is Japan’s first subway. It was opened quite a bit later than the date outlined in the article.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_Metro_Ginza_Line

Re: Tokyo's oldest train line – in pictures

#45

Post by nox101 »

mym1990 wrote: post #28

Wholly unrelated but one thing that struck me about the photos here is that almost all the people in them are looking at phones. This was a little crazy to me in the times I have visited, when I would get on the train and there was this eerie silence as almost every person was looking at their phone. No real point to my anecdote, just an observation. Also the stained glass(maybe just acrylic or something) at Mejiro S…

Is this different anywhere else?

https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo/cell-phones-people-subway-...

Re: Tokyo's oldest train line – in pictures

#46

Post by nox101 »

royjacobs wrote: post #5

I only recently discovered Densha De GO! and apparently the most recent game in the series is based around this very line. Very interesting to see these photos, I love the vibe, and it makes me appreciate all the detail that went into the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oqNFHGU3GM

Re: Tokyo's oldest train line – in pictures

#47

Post by mortenjorck »

I was a little disappointed they didn’t include a picture of Tokyo Station in Chiyoda. The place is incredible – the original building is over 100 years old, the complex connects the Yamanote line with half a dozen other lines including Shinkansen that go across Japan, and the retail areas put many American airports to shame.

Re: Tokyo's oldest train line – in pictures

#48

Post by bobthepanda »

Avicebron wrote: post #26
bobthepanda wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

JNR failed mostly because it was struggling from high construction debts of Shinkansen and urban rail projects. One important part of the privatization was that the government took on this debt load to unshackle the newly private companies. Also this hasn’t happened evenly. Of the seven private JRs, one (Kyushu) is treading water and three are losing money (Hokkaido, Shikoku and Freight)

> One important part of the privatization was that the government took on this debt load to unshackle the newly private companies. Which certainly in some accounting systems be seen as a bailout or form of government support for these newly privatized companies, which the government probably wouldn't do if they didn't see these rail lines as a form of public good (or at least necessity). I think another user mentione…

The other important bits to have functioning rail is that

* Japanese highways are heavily tolled and parking in choice areas is expensive. In the US parking is mandated at such high levels that it is given away for free; in Japan parking is entirely market provided and you cannot buy a car without proof of a reserved space which you must purchase

* Japanese commuting is heavily subsidized to the tune of 100,000JPY a month pretax, so consumers have more spending power specifically on transportation. This is at least one of the theorized causes of Japanese economic centralization since you can’t realize the full value of the benefit outside the megacities.

Re: Tokyo's oldest train line – in pictures

#49

Post by MichaelZuo »

shiroiushi wrote: post #41
numpad0 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I kind of get the snark, but I'm also not sure of an alternative. Extreme population density of Tokyo likely owe a lot to acquired ignorance. No way our brains don't go total schezophrenic being highly social all day long inside the Yamanote loop.

There's no real alternative: you either stare at people's shoes, or the ceiling, or you stare at your phone. The trains are crowded so it's basically impossible (during those times of the day) to look anywhere else, and staring at people is rude. Looking out the window isn't practical either: the seats are facing inwards, and there's people on the other side blocking the opposite window.

People can do other things, such as listening to music, an audiobook, reflect, meditate, etc...

Re: Tokyo's oldest train line – in pictures

#50

Post by bobthepanda »

simonw wrote: post #19
ano-ther wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP, but somebody still has to pay for the transit. And a "free" service is politically much more vulnerable than one that is partly being paid for by the users because it involves taxes and redistribution. It adds pressure for each (annual) budget discussion.

That "politically vulnerable" point is good. Almost all public transit ends up heavily subsidized, so the argument for free is that it's not a huge difference, and it reduces the costs involved in collecting fees / enforcement etc. But yeah, it's easier for political winds to blow against it.

It is generally not a huge difference in small systems like you find in college towns.

It is a pretty substantial portion of most major transit agency budgets; BART for example has a farebox recovery of about a third. If you were to totally make it free you would need to basically increase the other sources of funding by 50%.

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