Live data from Hacker News

For the first time in more than 150 years, Alberta's electricity is coal free

theglobeandmail.com

201–210 of 227 posts

Re: For the first time in more than 150 years, Alberta's electricity is coal free

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India needs electricity to develop their economy. The cheapest electricity is solar.

When the sun shines, no question about it solar is the cheapest. But is it still the cheapest when you account for battery storage? Remember, poor countries can't just print dollars to buy batteries from China. If they don't have domestic manufacturing capacity, they have to spend foreign exchange reserves to pay for the imports. That gets expensive real quick. Developing countries also often lack the technical talen…

> But is it still the cheapest when you account for battery storage?

In India where the biggest load will be air conditioning and thus correspond with sunshine? Definitely.

But the answer was different two years ago. Electricity projects are often decades in scale and takes time to propogate.

But you're right about costs. Solar and batteries are all the cost up front. Poor people and poor countries are often forced to buy more expensive things just because they can be purchased on an installment plant. A fossil fuel plant is cheaper up front but you have to continuously buy fuel. It only becomes more expensive after ten years or so.

Helping with the financing would go a long way.

Re: For the first time in more than 150 years, Alberta's electricity is coal free

#202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Appreciate the response but I'll be honest I don't understand what point you are making. My only point is that Alberta being larger than Germany means its more expensive to deliver power to all its various small towns distributed around the province. That seems pretty tautologically correct to me given that power lines have a cost and must be constantly maintained and built to support new power demands. I'm unsure ab…

We currently transport already energy from big producers to small towns left and right. Solar Energy reduces the load of the grid because the renewable energy will be consumed locally first. This puts less strain on it.

But you will still need to maintain a grid that's sized to handle situations when there's no solar.

Re: For the first time in more than 150 years, Alberta's electricity is coal free

#203
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Almost all of the thermal coal Canada produces comes from coal mines in Alberta and is exported, mainly to Asia, from ports in B.C.” https://globalnews.ca/news/10392382/canada-coal-exports/

More than half of Canada's coal production is metallurgical coal, suited for steel production. Most of that is mined in BC and exported. The grandparent comment and the above response are both true.

Washington state refuses to allow for coal export terminals, while California’s two coal export ports are too small, so a lot of western American coal is exported via BC also.

Re: For the first time in more than 150 years, Alberta's electricity is coal free

#204
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I am aware, Texas offsets the volatility of renewable with carbon based energy. Those renewable are not viable in a world with no carbon based energy. https://grid-analytics.ece.utexas.edu/chart/fuel-type-genera...

Yes, they mostly use carbon energy to offset volatility. That doesn't mean that there aren't other viable ways to do so.

Like what? Energy storage would push the combined price of renewable way beyond nuclear. You would need an alternative source of energy that is 1) on demand, and 2) which does not cost much when it is not activated. Not sure what that would be.

Re: For the first time in more than 150 years, Alberta's electricity is coal free

#205
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I am aware, Texas offsets the volatility of renewable with carbon based energy. Those renewable are not viable in a world with no carbon based energy. https://grid-analytics.ece.utexas.edu/chart/fuel-type-genera...

https://www.canarymedia.com/articles/energy-storage/texas-wi... ("Texas will add more grid batteries than any other state in 2024.") https://www.canarymedia.com/articles/energy-storage/how-texa... ("How Texas became the hottest grid battery market in the country") https://www.texastribune.org/2023/09/12/texas-power-grid-bat... ("As brutal heat tests Texas’ power grid, batteries play a small but growing role in keepin…

As far as I am aware, these are short term batteries to deal with intra day volatility (intra hour to switch between different sources in fact I believe). It's not capacity to deal with a week without wind. You would need to quote the capacity not in GW but in GWh for that (or GW-days).

Re: For the first time in more than 150 years, Alberta's electricity is coal free

#206

It is frustrating as someone who lives in Canada and has spend so much money to remove coal that India and China have said FU to the world and increased their coal usage. I guess given that those two countries are keeping Russia afloat by buying their oil it shouldn't be a surprise, but its still disappointing to see those countries choosing the path they did.

[deleted]

Re: For the first time in more than 150 years, Alberta's electricity is coal free

#207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then the US should be able to do without dirty, polluting imports from China. Right?

Yes, and it will happen, it would just colllapse the world economy and start a world war if international capital flows to China stopped overnight

And why? A collapse of the world economy would be imminent, but a global world war?

Re: For the first time in more than 150 years, Alberta's electricity is coal free

#208

It is frustrating as someone who lives in Canada and has spend so much money to remove coal that India and China have said FU to the world and increased their coal usage. I guess given that those two countries are keeping Russia afloat by buying their oil it shouldn't be a surprise, but its still disappointing to see those countries choosing the path they did.

You do realise that vast majority of India's new electricity generation is renewable right? And Canada just replaced coal with petroleum not green sources.

Its amazing how most western countries bash coal so much and then proceed to generate electricity using natural gas.

To me it's Canada that is saying FU to the world and then preaching about it.

Re: For the first time in more than 150 years, Alberta's electricity is coal free

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Renewables, conservation, and stop growing so many people.

> stop growing so many people lol they did just that. China is not "growing so many people" anymore, and neither is India, really. I suppose they could cull some of the previously grown people to get under 5 million like Alberta and to make your advice actually useful. But maybe your obvious solutions just haven't occurred to them yet.

You need to update your racist stereotypes. India's birth rate is below the replacement rate.

Re: For the first time in more than 150 years, Alberta's electricity is coal free

#210
post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We currently transport already energy from big producers to small towns left and right. Solar Energy reduces the load of the grid because the renewable energy will be consumed locally first. This puts less strain on it.

But you will still need to maintain a grid that's sized to handle situations when there's no solar.

The grid which already exists because it was built before solar was interesting.

The grid which connects the Suncor Fort Hills mine in Alberta to Tijuana in Mexico.

Even if you want to expand that grid to the level of everyone getting their winter midnight electricity from the midsummer sun on the opposite side of the planet, the material element of the "electric highway" isn't what stops it, it has a low cost compared to the last-mile stuff that already exists.

Post reply on HN