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For the first time in more than 150 years, Alberta's electricity is coal free

theglobeandmail.com

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Re: For the first time in more than 150 years, Alberta's electricity is coal free

#171

Post by 486sx33 »

jogjayr wrote: post #124
chollida1 wrote: post #74

It is frustrating as someone who lives in Canada and has spend so much money to remove coal that India and China have said FU to the world and increased their coal usage. I guess given that those two countries are keeping Russia afloat by buying their oil it shouldn't be a surprise, but its still disappointing to see those countries choosing the path they did.

As an Indian immigrant to Canada, it is frustrating to see people believe it's a choice. I also hear a lot of hate for the carbon tax and rebate program in Canada. I support the program, even though it costs me money. > someone who lives in Canada and has spend so much money Which means Canada has money. India is much poorer on a per-capita basis. They can become wealthy by developing their economy. India can't spend…

India needs to focus on decreasing its birth rate, which it completely ignores. They can’t just keep making more people and expect things to world out

Re: For the first time in more than 150 years, Alberta's electricity is coal free

#172

Post by [deleted] »

lesuorac wrote: post #154
dheera wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India's government is dirt poor in comparison to China's government. Clean energy is expensive. Both governments are actually very pro-clean-energy and more willing to deploy it, given the money, than a certain two ~80-year-old farts that take turns every 4 years playing stupid politics games and picking fights.

> Clean energy is expensive. Eh, nuclear sure but in general no. That's the whole reason solar is becoming so popular is that it's cheaper [2]. If you have to pair solar with storage then it becomes more expensive [1] (general X+Y is more expensive than just X or Y). But uh, people tend to work when the sun shines so you can add a ton of solar to offset the increased energy usage during the day. [1]: https://www.powe…

[deleted]

Re: For the first time in more than 150 years, Alberta's electricity is coal free

#173

Post by 486sx33 »

eldaisfish wrote: post #135
chollida1 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, you basically ignored the point about them buying Russian oil/gas, thus enabling the Russian war. But yes, I agree that China makes things. India doesn't really have that excuse for using coal.

This is complete nonsense. India is among the world’s five largest economies and is continuing to grow. Part of a growing economy is falling poverty and growing electrical demand. how exactly do you propose India meet the growing electric demands of her residents? The Russian gas and oil story is more pragmatism than evil intent. One part of your comment is accurate - India’s exports are tiny relative to its populati…

Renewables, conservation, and stop growing so many people.

Re: For the first time in more than 150 years, Alberta's electricity is coal free

#174

Post by bryanlarsen »

triceratops wrote: post #164
bryanlarsen wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New builds are ~100% solar and wind.

I'm not talking about new builds. New builds in developed countries can be 100% renewable because there's enough installed non-renewable capacity available as fallback. Developing countries don't have that.

You just answered your own question. Developing nations aren't at 100% renewable because they already have a large amount of installed non-renewables.

Re: For the first time in more than 150 years, Alberta's electricity is coal free

#175

Post by _aavaa_ »

gpm wrote: post #16
silverquiet wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Methane burned for electricity is better than coal no doubt. But methane that escapes into the atmosphere is way worse than CO2 in the nearish term. And not every extraction company is super thrilled about proper containment.

Released methane is 27-30 times worse than released CO2 per unit mass measured over the next 100 years of warming [1]. Burning methane releases 1 CO2 molecule per CH4 molecule (CH4 + 2O2 -> CO2 + 2H2O), or 2.743 it's mass in CO2 [2]. To make up the difference in CO2 you'd have to be losing ~5% of the methane to the atmosphere along the way from extraction to burning. Do you have reason to believe anywhere near that m…

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.est.1c06458

That study puts it at 9.4% of gross production. Many other sources exist which put 5% at a very realistic number. Fossil gas is dirt cheap, invisible, and leaks are large self-reported, so the companies have 0 reasons to properly test for or stop leaks.

Re: For the first time in more than 150 years, Alberta's electricity is coal free

#176

Post by 486sx33 »

Waterluvian wrote: post #77
chollida1 wrote: post #74

It is frustrating as someone who lives in Canada and has spend so much money to remove coal that India and China have said FU to the world and increased their coal usage. I guess given that those two countries are keeping Russia afloat by buying their oil it shouldn't be a surprise, but its still disappointing to see those countries choosing the path they did.

As a Canadian it’s hard for me to be upset given we still emit far more carbon per capita than China or India.

“Canada could already be absorbing 20 to 30 per cent more CO2 than we emit”

https://financialpost.com/opinion/canada-may-already-be-carb...

Re: For the first time in more than 150 years, Alberta's electricity is coal free

#177

Post by bryanlarsen »

486sx33 wrote: post #166
matthewdgreen wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>India and China have said FU to the world and increased their coal usage. China is building an unbelievable amount of renewables and nuclear, more than the rest of the world combined. Like every other part of the world, they're backstopping these variable power sources with fossil generation -- mainly by building modern coal power plants that can be spun down when renewable generation is high. They've also developed…

[flagged]

They've massively increased their capacity to build coal by a massive amount. They've also massively decreased the capacity factor of their coal plants. It used to be that their coal plants mostly ran 24/7, now their coal plants mostly just run at night while the sun isn't shining.

More coal plants burning less coal.

https://www.sustainabilitybynumbers.com/p/china-coal-plants

Re: For the first time in more than 150 years, Alberta's electricity is coal free

#178

Post by bryanlarsen »

jogjayr wrote: post #124
chollida1 wrote: post #74

It is frustrating as someone who lives in Canada and has spend so much money to remove coal that India and China have said FU to the world and increased their coal usage. I guess given that those two countries are keeping Russia afloat by buying their oil it shouldn't be a surprise, but its still disappointing to see those countries choosing the path they did.

As an Indian immigrant to Canada, it is frustrating to see people believe it's a choice. I also hear a lot of hate for the carbon tax and rebate program in Canada. I support the program, even though it costs me money. > someone who lives in Canada and has spend so much money Which means Canada has money. India is much poorer on a per-capita basis. They can become wealthy by developing their economy. India can't spend…

India needs electricity to develop their economy. The cheapest electricity is solar.

Re: For the first time in more than 150 years, Alberta's electricity is coal free

#179

Post by triceratops »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #174
triceratops wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not talking about new builds. New builds in developed countries can be 100% renewable because there's enough installed non-renewable capacity available as fallback. Developing countries don't have that.

You just answered your own question. Developing nations aren't at 100% renewable because they already have a large amount of installed non-renewables.

Err...no. Developing countries tend to not have a large amount of anything. Definitionally they're poor and under-resourced.

If their economies are growing, the grids are constantly playing catch-up with demand. Otherwise they're in a state of managed decline, or are an actual dumpster fire.

Whatever the case may be, the one thing they don't have is reliable base generation capability. A safety net for when renewables can't produce enough.

Re: For the first time in more than 150 years, Alberta's electricity is coal free

#180

Post by bryanlarsen »

pfdietz wrote: post #111
bryanlarsen wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A water reservoir is a heck of a lot cheaper to make large compared to a hydrogen tank.

Hydrogen on this scale would be stored underground, preferably in solution mined salt caverns. This is a well established technology, although it's more used for storing natural gas. These caverns are very inexpensive to build, which is why they are used. Alberta, as it turns out, is underlaid by kilometers of sedimentary rock that includes salt formations.

Still sounds more expensive than a holding pond.
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