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Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

reuters.com

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Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#251

Post by [deleted] »

DEADMINCEDOS wrote: post #106
nottorp wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you do care about privacy and having control of your own hardware, Google is the only choice, and that should be very obvious. Google is an ad company so it's totally not obvious to me. > Not because Android is so much better, but because you have a lot of options, even using a custom rom if you want. Oh, and can I pay with my phone when using those custom roms, for example?

> Google is an ad company so it's totally not obvious to me. Google being an ad company is irrelevant here. I wasn't clear in my wording, I should have said 'Android as a platform' and not Google, is the only choice, and it is. Sure, there are disadvantages and it's not perfect, but it doesn't matter. If you care about privacy, using something like Graphene or eOS on a Fairphone is your best option. > Oh, and can I p…

[deleted]

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#252

Post by DEADMINCEDOS »

ffgjgf1 wrote: post #203
DEADMINCEDOS wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This doesn’t exempt them from the law. Sure it does. If they leave the EU market and have no presence, then EU laws can't reach them. > Apple is never giving up the EU. I would normally agree, but if EU fines surpass the profit Apple can make in the EU, they might.

> they might. Let’s not get silly and totally absurd. Also it’s the cost of compliance that has to surpass their profit not the fines which are entirely optional. In any case Apple is still making a lot of money from selling the devices themselves and much more than from the app store.

> Let’s not get silly and totally absurd.

Sure, like let's not be silly and absurd and refuse to consider the possibility Apple might leave the EU?

> Also it’s the cost of compliance that has to surpass their profit

Right, but the fines the EU issues are from their global revenue. While I think this is reasonable, for the same reasons it's a problem that the rich can speed and not care about a fine, but it could well be enough for Apple to withdraw.

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#253

Post by DEADMINCEDOS »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #184
DEADMINCEDOS wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google is an ad company so it's totally not obvious to me. Google being an ad company is irrelevant here. I wasn't clear in my wording, I should have said 'Android as a platform' and not Google, is the only choice, and it is. Sure, there are disadvantages and it's not perfect, but it doesn't matter. If you care about privacy, using something like Graphene or eOS on a Fairphone is your best option. > Oh, and can I p…

Help change that how? If trying to get enough public support to push for structural change is the idea, then iOS is currently moving toward being less locked down, while Android has been getting more locked down.

Help change that by supporting open platforms over closed platforms. It's that simple. Put your money towards fairphones and pinephones and not iphones.

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#254

Post by ffgjgf1 »

burnerthrow008 wrote: post #239
ffgjgf1 wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it’s still a problem for apple because they won’t leave. Even in the absurdly inconceivable (to an extent that it’s not even worth discussing) case that they did losing a significant proportion of their revenue would be a much bigger problem for them than the EU.

Less than 20% of Apple’s net income comes from what they call “Europe”, which actually includes Africa and the mid-East. If Apple pulled out of the EU , which isn’t even all of the European continent much less the “Europe” reporting region, they would probably take less than a 10% hit. Significant, but not a showstopper. I don’t know where everyone gets this idea that pulling out of the EU would kill Apple.

> out of the EU would kill Apple.

It wouldn’t. It would still be an immensely absurd thing to do. I assume Apple is not run by 12-year olds, why would they lose 15-20% (probably closer to 20%, EMEA seems to be ~27% and besides Britain the EU would be the overwhelming majority of what’s left) of their revenue out of spite when realistically they are only risking 1-2% by staying?

They are just trying to find the “optimal” way of complying with the regulations while maximizing their income.

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#255

Post by ffgjgf1 »

DEADMINCE wrote: post #245
ffgjgf1 wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ehhhhhh. Kind of. Maybe. Certainly not always Certainly always, in the case of companies like Apple. They either lose > 95% of their sales in the EU or comply with their regulations. > porn Is not sold on physical media these days.

> Certainly always, in the case of companies like Apple. No, lol. If Apple pulls out of the EU, they won't have any official presence, period. > They either lose > 95% of their sales in the EU or comply with their regulations. Or bypass them by pulling out. > Is not sold on physical media these days. Yeah, that was the point. Re-read the comment in context.

> they won't have any official presence, period.

So they’d lose 20% of their global revenue just out of spite? Can you name a single rational reason why’d they do that?

> Or bypass

How? They won’t be able to sell directly to EU customers…

> Re-read the comment in context.

It just doesn’t make any sense. Apple wouldn’t be able to sell to clients in the EU on a large scale. It just wouldn’t work due to perfectly obvious reasons.

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#256

Post by ffgjgf1 »

DEADMINCEDOS wrote: post #252
ffgjgf1 wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they might. Let’s not get silly and totally absurd. Also it’s the cost of compliance that has to surpass their profit not the fines which are entirely optional. In any case Apple is still making a lot of money from selling the devices themselves and much more than from the app store.

> Let’s not get silly and totally absurd. Sure, like let's not be silly and absurd and refuse to consider the possibility Apple might leave the EU? > Also it’s the cost of compliance that has to surpass their profit Right, but the fines the EU issues are from their global revenue. While I think this is reasonable, for the same reasons it's a problem that the rich can speed and not care about a fine, but it could well…

Why would Apple willingly choose to lose 20% of their revenue instead of 2%? That’s simply not rational i.e. absurd

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#257

Post by ffgjgf1 »

burnerthrow008 wrote: post #238
ffgjgf1 wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple still makes significantly more money from selling the actual iPhones than from the App Store. This such an obvious fact that anyone even mildly interested in the topic (i.e. commenting here and making such strong, yet silly, claims) surely must know..

If that were true, Apple wouldn’t care to poke the bear. If you were honest, you would read Apple’s SEC filing, which show that (globally) about 43% of Apple’s profits come from Services, while 57% comes from hardware. You could just admit that you don’t understand the difference between revenue and profit. I’m sure you’ll move the goalposts and claim that’s “significantly” more. The EU wants to zero out Services rev…

> If that were true, Apple wouldn’t care to poke the bear

They are just searching for the optimal way of complying with the regulations while maximizing their income .

you do have a valid point about services being a larger % of their net income than I implied but that includes Apple Care, iCloud, the estimated $20(?) billion from Google that’s basically pure profit and is massively inflating the services segment’s margins? What proportion is left to the App Store? Who cares let’s just ignore that I guess..

> You could just admit that you don’t understand the difference between revenue and profit

Ok, that’s that, you’re either being obtuse or worse. Either way no point in continuing this silly discussion. But no, most of what you’re saying makes very little sense

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#258

Post by nottorp »

DEADMINCE wrote: post #248
nottorp wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Consider little indie studios, for example. The little indie studios that I buy my games from are all pay once? > Quite often, free to play can end up costing people less money. Case in point, I played CSGO for 10+ years and spent less than $5 on it. If I had bought the game when it came out it would have cost $20 or so. Someone else paid $2000 for hats or whatever CSGO sells in the same period to cover the $20 you…

> The little indie studios that I buy my games from are all pay once? Why are you going out of your way to disingenuously interpret comments? It's strangely super-defensive, your comment history shows it isn't a rare occurrence. No, maybe not the little indie studios you specifically buy your games from, but plenty of indie studios offer free to play games. Go browse Steam or something before commenting more on this…

> Go browse Steam or something before commenting more on this subject please.

I don't look at free games, I'm not that rich.

> No shit, business models evolve. That doesn't mean all free to play games are inherently predatory. That's honestly a very foolish assertion to try and make.

But they are. And not only for the whales that pay 2000 for the hats.

Do you realize that any "free" title is designed to waste your time to keep you playing? Why do you think they are all endless $ACTIVITY or competitive multiplayer? Is your time worth that little?

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#259

Post by DEADMINCE »

ffgjgf1 wrote: post #256
DEADMINCEDOS wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Let’s not get silly and totally absurd. Sure, like let's not be silly and absurd and refuse to consider the possibility Apple might leave the EU? > Also it’s the cost of compliance that has to surpass their profit Right, but the fines the EU issues are from their global revenue. While I think this is reasonable, for the same reasons it's a problem that the rich can speed and not care about a fine, but it could well…

Why would Apple willingly choose to lose 20% of their revenue instead of 2%? That’s simply not rational i.e. absurd

It's only absurd because you chose absurd numbers to use.

Where are you getting that 2% figure from? The entire issue is that EU fines take from global revenue, not EU revenue.

This is very simple. If EU fines are greater than EU revenue, it would be absurd for Apple not to leave.

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#260

Post by ffgjgf1 »

burnerthrow008 wrote: post #240
ffgjgf1 wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So instead of losing 5% or so of their revenue in the EU they’d rather lose > 80-90% seems like a smart business decision… In any case (not quite the same but gives a glimpse into their mindset) they have zero issues with kowtowing to authoritarian regimes like those in Russia or China

> So instead of losing 5% or so of their revenue in the EU they’d rather lose > 80-90% They would directly lose ~40% of profit . Additionally, there’s no reason to buy an iPhone if it just works like an Android, so Apple would be competing with Samsung hardware on price instead of on having a superior customer experience. So there go the other ~60% of profits. So, yes, pulling out of the market completely starts to l…

> They would directly lose ~40% of profit

How did you come to that conclusion. Doesn’t “services” include the $20 billion get from Google per year which is basically pure profit? Also Apple care, icloud etc etc. how would that be impacted?

> Additionally, there’s no reason to buy an iPhone if it just works like an Android

Why would it work the same as an Android? Most people don’t use third party appstores or side loading anyway…

> So, yes, pulling out of the market completely starts to look like a rational business decision.

An utterly ridiculously absurd thing to say..

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