Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

241–250 of 285 posts

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#241

Post by lukeschlather »

throwitaway1123 wrote: post #161
lukeschlather wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing I can quantify directly: in Zoom's native Windows app I can reply to a question and share my screen essentially instantly. That is to say I can do like "you can see here" and I've shared my screen before I've finished speaking, in the Google Meet PWA I have to say "here let me show you..." and pause while I wait for the screen share UI to load, I find the button to share the correct screen, and go. I don't…

After some of the CVEs linked to the Zoom desktop clients I wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole [1][2], but I don't want to move the goalposts since we're talking about performance here. It's hard to tell whether or not the disparity is due to a Screen Capture API performance issue, or just bad engineering from the front end team at Google Meet, or even just bad UI design. Hiding features behind buttons and menu…

All I can tell you is that Google Meet is thoroughly inferior to native Zoom, and the browser-based Zoom is also inferior. If you don't use both apps professionally, you don't have a feel for what it means to rely on such features working for effective communication, you don't have a basis for comparison. It's hard to quantify the cost of security, and it's equally hard to quantify the cost of bad UX.

Definitely during the pandemic - good UX meant I got to feel more present with friends and family and that was well worth any security cost.

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#242

Post by throwitaway1123 »

lukeschlather wrote: post #241
throwitaway1123 wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After some of the CVEs linked to the Zoom desktop clients I wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole [1][2], but I don't want to move the goalposts since we're talking about performance here. It's hard to tell whether or not the disparity is due to a Screen Capture API performance issue, or just bad engineering from the front end team at Google Meet, or even just bad UI design. Hiding features behind buttons and menu…

All I can tell you is that Google Meet is thoroughly inferior to native Zoom, and the browser-based Zoom is also inferior. If you don't use both apps professionally, you don't have a feel for what it means to rely on such features working for effective communication, you don't have a basis for comparison. It's hard to quantify the cost of security, and it's equally hard to quantify the cost of bad UX. Definitely duri…

I've used Zoom professionally in the browser literally within the past week, and it ran smoothly. We can trade anecdotes here, but it won't be very productive.

What I can tell you is that I felt at ease using Zoom in the browser knowing that I wasn't opening my computer up to a remote code execution vulnerability. Your UX concerns are a bit nebulous, but I'd be willing to bet that the risk assessment departments at most organizations could quantify the cost of a hacker gaining access to one of their employee's computers. I also used Zoom during the pandemic but I wasn't doing a ton of screen sharing (I was more interested in seeing my friends and family members faces rather than their screens).

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#243

Post by nucleardog »

aurareturn wrote: post #170
nucleardog wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why bother with the fines and taxes and regulations? Stop beating around the bush here and do what you want directly—nationalize it.

Yes, let's nationalize Android as well. Windows too. Azure. AWS. Google. Nationalize everything. Let politicians build our tech products. I hear many congress and senate people write great product specs and are great at UX design.

That's exactly my point.

We're all "yeah, the government's shit at this stay out of tech" but then turn around and "I don't like the way these guys are doing things, the government needs to force them to build and run their platform differently."

Which is it? You want the government telling tech companies how to run things or not?

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#244

Post by DEADMINCE »

ffgjgf1 wrote: post #202
burnerthrow008 wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that China’s domestic requirements don’t require Apple to become a non-profit. If the EU’s requirements are actually as many HN’ers would like them to be, Apple will have no reason to sell iPhones in the EU.

Apple still makes significantly more money from selling the actual iPhones than from the App Store. This such an obvious fact that anyone even mildly interested in the topic (i.e. commenting here and making such strong, yet silly, claims) surely must know..

It's not people making silly claims so much as you being very attached to your assumptions.

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#245

Post by DEADMINCE »

ffgjgf1 wrote: post #204
DEADMINCEDOS wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Selling your product in the EU means having an EU presence. Ehhhhhh. Kind of. Maybe. Certainly not always. I mean, if there is some shitty little porn company in say, California, and they make porn that say, caters to a fetish that is legal in California but illegal in the EU, well, what then? The porn company isn't doing anything wrong, and EU laws are irrelevant. At this point they can try to firewall off the com…

> Ehhhhhh. Kind of. Maybe. Certainly not always Certainly always, in the case of companies like Apple. They either lose > 95% of their sales in the EU or comply with their regulations. > porn Is not sold on physical media these days.

> Certainly always, in the case of companies like Apple.

No, lol. If Apple pulls out of the EU, they won't have any official presence, period.

> They either lose > 95% of their sales in the EU or comply with their regulations.

Or bypass them by pulling out.

> Is not sold on physical media these days.

Yeah, that was the point. Re-read the comment in context.

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#246

Post by DEADMINCE »

ffgjgf1 wrote: post #201
DEADMINCE wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, if it's too much, they will just pull out of the EU and sell to Europeans via online only. EU citizens will still be Apple customers, just without any EU protections. To be fair, the EU is being a bit ridiculous sometimes. Apple decided not to compete in the EU because of the restrictions, and the EU seemingly wanted to penalize that decision also.

So instead of losing 5% or so of their revenue in the EU they’d rather lose > 80-90% seems like a smart business decision… In any case (not quite the same but gives a glimpse into their mindset) they have zero issues with kowtowing to authoritarian regimes like those in Russia or China

> So instead of losing 5% or so of their revenue in the EU they’d rather lose > 80-90% seems like a smart business decision…

Not sure where you're pulling that 5% figure from, but the EU wants to fine companies like Apple a much larger percentage of their global revenue, not just EU revenue.

If the fines the EU wants to impose are greater than Apple's profit in the EU, indeed it would be a smart business decision to pull out.

> In any case (not quite the same but gives a glimpse into their mindset) they have zero issues with kowtowing to authoritarian regimes like those in Russia or China

Well, duh. Apple are not concerned with a government abusing its own people, they are concerned with a government taking 10% of their global revenue.

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#247

Post by DEADMINCE »

immibis wrote: post #113
DEADMINCEDOS wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Selling your product in the EU means having an EU presence. Ehhhhhh. Kind of. Maybe. Certainly not always. I mean, if there is some shitty little porn company in say, California, and they make porn that say, caters to a fetish that is legal in California but illegal in the EU, well, what then? The porn company isn't doing anything wrong, and EU laws are irrelevant. At this point they can try to firewall off the com…

The EU could start blocking payments to that porn studio. Avoiding the block would be money laundering, which is also illegal in California. The EU (or it's constituent countries - not sure) also controls imports, and could seize and destroy illegally purchased iPhones at the border. Every one of my international purchases is already stopped and processed by customs to evaluate import taxes. It would be quite easy fo…

> The EU could start blocking payments to that porn studio.

Sure, but this is not punishing the company in any way which was the other posters point. If the EU was blocking payments to Apple after Apple withdrew from the EU, they are not punishing Apple or holding them accountable to EU law (specifically in the context of complying with competition guidelines and DMA type stuff).

> Avoiding the block would be money laundering, which is also illegal in California.

Hmmmm. I'm not so sure about that. If the EU barred payments to Apple, that block would be on banks and payment processors, not people. If someone goes to the US and buys an iPhone in this new world, they are not committing a crime unless the EU passes a law prohibiting its citizens to buy iPhones.

> The EU (or it's constituent countries - not sure) also controls imports, and could seize and destroy illegally purchased iPhones at the border. Every one of my international purchases is already stopped and processed by customs to evaluate import taxes. It would be quite easy for them to simply say "you can't import this."

Absolutely, but this has nothing to do with Apple, and it isn't the EU punishing Apple, it's Apple punishing people or organizations.

The other posters point was that if Apple withdraws from the EU, EU law wouldn't apply (in the sense they wouldn't need to allow any 3rd party app store, period), and people could still buy iPhones and Apple products outside of it. It's on the EU to try and deal with that.

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#248

Post by DEADMINCE »

nottorp wrote: post #123
DEADMINCEDOS wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> See below. See above. > So the free to play model fleeces you for more money. It's not predatory. At all. Honest. Ah, I see the cause of the misunderstanding. You're assuming the free to play model fleeces people for more money always when that simply isn't true. It's obviously true when companies are playing dirty, but not all companies do. Consider little indie studios, for example. Quite often, free to play can…

> Consider little indie studios, for example. The little indie studios that I buy my games from are all pay once? > Quite often, free to play can end up costing people less money. Case in point, I played CSGO for 10+ years and spent less than $5 on it. If I had bought the game when it came out it would have cost $20 or so. Someone else paid $2000 for hats or whatever CSGO sells in the same period to cover the $20 you…

> The little indie studios that I buy my games from are all pay once?

Why are you going out of your way to disingenuously interpret comments? It's strangely super-defensive, your comment history shows it isn't a rare occurrence.

No, maybe not the little indie studios you specifically buy your games from, but plenty of indie studios offer free to play games.

Go browse Steam or something before commenting more on this subject please.

> Someone else paid $2000 for hats or whatever CSGO sells in the same period to cover the $20 you and other 98 players haven't paid.

Because they probably had disposable income and wanted to. It doesn't mean they are being fleeced, anymore than Balanciaga is 'fleecing' people here.

I take 'fleecing' here to mean conning, and there is no con happening. It's an honest transaction that people can take if they want to.

> Any free to play game would have been completely different if it were designed as a pay once game.

No shit, business models evolve. That doesn't mean all free to play games are inherently predatory. That's honestly a very foolish assertion to try and make.

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#249

Post by DEADMINCEDOS »

FireBeyond wrote: post #142
DEADMINCEDOS wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Selling your product in the EU means having an EU presence. Ehhhhhh. Kind of. Maybe. Certainly not always. I mean, if there is some shitty little porn company in say, California, and they make porn that say, caters to a fetish that is legal in California but illegal in the EU, well, what then? The porn company isn't doing anything wrong, and EU laws are irrelevant. At this point they can try to firewall off the com…

> So, if Apple pulls out of the EU, maybe they can no longer ship mail to the EU, I'm doubtful of that but let's just say. Why? Apple has Customs pulling (ironically, actually genuine) Apple parts being shipped. Customs is built around this whole model, unless what, you propose that Apple starts selling commercial quantities of iPhones by disposable drop shippers?

Excellent point, I clearly wasn't thinking too clearly when I made that point. The main point I was thinking is that trying to stop iPhones coming in to the EU is significantly harder.

Imagine the amount of people wanking through the 'nothing to declare' exit after coming back from pretty much any other country and buying an iphone.

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#250

Post by DEADMINCEDOS »

WeylandYutani wrote: post #174
DEADMINCEDOS wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This doesn’t exempt them from the law. Sure it does. If they leave the EU market and have no presence, then EU laws can't reach them. > Apple is never giving up the EU. I would normally agree, but if EU fines surpass the profit Apple can make in the EU, they might.

If Apple leaves they are handing the keys to Google and Chinaphones.

That would still be worth if if EU fines to Apple > Apple's EU profit.
Post reply on HN