First anode-free sodium solid-state battery • Hacker News Board

Re: First anode-free sodium solid-state battery

#131

Post by westurner » Sun, Jul 07, 2024, 7:46 PM UTC

westurner wrote: post #47

popol12 wrote: post #3

Na4MnCr(PO4)3 Chromium is 5 times more abundant than Lithium in earth crust (0.01% vs 0.002%). Better, but not that much ? "Regular" sodium-ion batteries with prussian blue has, it seems, the great advantage of not using any scarce elements. It would be nice to have a comparison between this solid state chemistry and the regular one.

What are the processes for recovering Chromium (Cr) when recycling batteries after a few hundred cycles? Is it Trivalent, Hexavalent, or another form of Chromium? Chromium > Precautions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromium#Precautions

Erin Brockovich: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erin_Brockovich :

> [average Cr-6 levels in wells; public health] In October 2022, even though the EPA announced Cr-6 was likely carcinogenic if consumed in drinking water, The American Chemistry Council, an industry lobby group, disputed their finding. [18]

Hopefully it's dietary chromium, not Hexavalent chromium (Cr-6).

(My comment on this is unexplainedly downvoted to 0?)

Again, would battery recycling processes affect the molecular form of Chromium?

Re: First anode-free sodium solid-state battery

#132

Post by Qwertious » Mon, Jul 08, 2024, 12:52 AM UTC

lazide wrote: post #111

redundantly wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the person you responded to was talking about battery storage for solar set ups.

There is zero chance right now of any battery storage being in the $3/kwh range. Even in the manager-of-the-battery-factory-took-some-home-for-cost situation. That would be one of these [ https://www.amazon.com/LiFePO4-Battery-Perfect-Applications-... ] for $3, if we were only talking batteries. No MPPT or line chargers, etc. That’s about what the plastic and internal bus components are going to cost for that battery…

For example:

A Tesla battery is roughly 80kWh, and costs $5k - $10k. If it were $3/kWh then it would cost $240. And since most home batteries are 10kWh they would cost $30 (plus electrician labor costs and wiring).

Re: First anode-free sodium solid-state battery

#133

Post by brightball » Mon, Jul 08, 2024, 1:44 AM UTC

bjconlan wrote: post #80

brightball wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I've been interested in the Graphene Aluminum batteries from GMG for so long. They are producing graphene in bulk without having to mine it. Aluminum is already extremely abundant as well. I'm very optimistic because these solve so many battery issues at the same time, heat, rapid charge, sourcing.

Oh wow this is great technology. (Also surprised that it's driven by the UQ/rio-tinto. Hopefully GMG will learn from the failures of Tritium on the business side of things (as they are from similar stock))

Yea, supposedly they are going to use the batteries for industrial and high power applications (like mining equipment) first before even looking at the EV market.

Re: First anode-free sodium solid-state battery

#134

Post by ytpete » Mon, Jul 08, 2024, 2:57 AM UTC

dtx1 wrote: post #38

> with stable cycling for several hundred cycles. So an order of Magnitude less than useful batteries.

Does the paper say they don't have stable cycling beyond a few hundred cycles? Or just that they only tested up to a few hundred cycles, and it was stable all through the range they had time to test so far? Big difference between those two.

Re: First anode-free sodium solid-state battery

#135

Post by syncsynchalt » Mon, Jul 08, 2024, 4:43 PM UTC

jdthedisciple wrote: post #74

jfengel wrote: post #4

I don't know much about electricity but surely an anode is necessary for electrons to flow? Sayeth Wikipedia, "Instead, it creates a metal anode the first time it is charged." Ok. I'm still not entirely clear on it but it makes some kinda sense.

The other thing is how is that a benefit? Why should I be excited that "it creates its metal anode the first time it is charged"? I mean this question in ELI5-fashion not in a disparaging one.

ELI5: It's cheaper/easier to dump chemicals in a battery and have them form the structure, than to carefully build and install the structure into the battery.

Battery construction is process-intensive (lots of fiddly things you have to do carefully and in order), and everyone's looking for ways to cut that down.