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First anode-free sodium solid-state battery

pme.uchicago.edu

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Re: First anode-free sodium solid-state battery

#101

Post by thinkcontext »

portpecos wrote: post #99
ChuckMcM wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and conflate "totals" with proven reserves while failing to mention that people aren't really actively looking for more reserve as aggressively. But this is a PR piece for the University for which the standard problem is to magnify both the problems it avoid as well as the impact it produces. But at its core, an anode free battery has a lot of desirable properties which make this engineer feat notable. Perhaps t…

Just a side note, most quotes I got from companies installing solar panels on my roof ranged between $3/kWh to $4/kWh.

Your units are wrong, kw not kwh. And your decimal place is wrong, the going rate is around $3 per watt.

And I'm not sure how you were trying to relate that to battery storage.

Re: First anode-free sodium solid-state battery

#102

Post by ChuckMcM »

portpecos wrote: post #99
ChuckMcM wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and conflate "totals" with proven reserves while failing to mention that people aren't really actively looking for more reserve as aggressively. But this is a PR piece for the University for which the standard problem is to magnify both the problems it avoid as well as the impact it produces. But at its core, an anode free battery has a lot of desirable properties which make this engineer feat notable. Perhaps t…

Just a side note, most quotes I got from companies installing solar panels on my roof ranged between $3/kWh to $4/kWh.

Solar panels have indeed become much cheaper, although it is important to distinguish between energy "provided" and energy "stored." Which why the combination is so important. It is often great to look at solar in terms of a "solar day" which is defined as the hours during which the panels deliver peak capacity. On my house, there is about 6kW of solar panels, and under optimum productions they produce for 5 hours in a day, so a total of 30kWh. What gets to the house or the grid is reduced by efficiency losses and the difference between performance under "standard test conditions"[1] and what is actually their environment. My house reliably produces just over 5kW at its peak or about 25kWh in a solar day.

In California, if you are tied to the grid as my system is, you are still at the mercy for how much the power company will credit you for power you generate vs charge you for power you consume. That has been a source of argument hear for the last 20 years. With sufficient local storage, you can completely disconnect from the grid and that removes this pricing power of the power company over your energy production. Something I hope to do within the next 5 years.

[1] This is sort of the MPG equivalent rating for solar panels, good for comparing panels to other panels but bad for guessing how much power they will produce for you.

Re: First anode-free sodium solid-state battery

#103

Post by dclowd9901 »

jdthedisciple wrote: post #74
jfengel wrote: post #4

I don't know much about electricity but surely an anode is necessary for electrons to flow? Sayeth Wikipedia, "Instead, it creates a metal anode the first time it is charged." Ok. I'm still not entirely clear on it but it makes some kinda sense.

The other thing is how is that a benefit? Why should I be excited that "it creates its metal anode the first time it is charged"? I mean this question in ELI5-fashion not in a disparaging one.

The two replies here don’t really get at _how_ it’s better: it’s because you don’t have material in the battery that exists simply to be an anode. In effect, it’s more efficient by weight.

Re: First anode-free sodium solid-state battery

#105

Post by iknowstuff »

zoigdev2 wrote: post #84
ec109685 wrote: post #72

Lithium has actually dropped in price by 80% over the last two years, so this part of the article is (currently) wrong: “ The lithium commonly used for batteries isn’t that common. It makes up about 20 parts per million of the Earth’s crust, compared to sodium, which makes up 20,000 parts per million. This scarcity, combined with the surge in demand for the lithium-ion batteries for laptops, phones and EVs, have sent…

[flagged]

not much

Re: First anode-free sodium solid-state battery

#107

Post by grecy »

portpecos wrote: post #99
ChuckMcM wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and conflate "totals" with proven reserves while failing to mention that people aren't really actively looking for more reserve as aggressively. But this is a PR piece for the University for which the standard problem is to magnify both the problems it avoid as well as the impact it produces. But at its core, an anode free battery has a lot of desirable properties which make this engineer feat notable. Perhaps t…

Just a side note, most quotes I got from companies installing solar panels on my roof ranged between $3/kWh to $4/kWh.

Two months ago I got 6.8kW installed on my house for $13,000CAD. Some of that was DIY, but I just bought the whole system retail.

So just under $2 CAD/kW installed and running - inverter, licensed electrician and permits, everything. (That's under $1.50 USD/kW)

The panels are now cheaper than when I bought them too :)

Re: First anode-free sodium solid-state battery

#108

Post by incompatible »

ec109685 wrote: post #72

Lithium has actually dropped in price by 80% over the last two years, so this part of the article is (currently) wrong: “ The lithium commonly used for batteries isn’t that common. It makes up about 20 parts per million of the Earth’s crust, compared to sodium, which makes up 20,000 parts per million. This scarcity, combined with the surge in demand for the lithium-ion batteries for laptops, phones and EVs, have sent…

Are the figures wrong, 20 parts per million of the Earth’s crust, compared to sodium, which makes up 20,000 parts per million? If not, surely sodium will be easier to obtain, in the long run.

Re: First anode-free sodium solid-state battery

#109

Post by papercrane »

grecy wrote: post #107
portpecos wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a side note, most quotes I got from companies installing solar panels on my roof ranged between $3/kWh to $4/kWh.

Two months ago I got 6.8kW installed on my house for $13,000CAD. Some of that was DIY, but I just bought the whole system retail. So just under $2 CAD/kW installed and running - inverter, licensed electrician and permits, everything. (That's under $1.50 USD/kW) The panels are now cheaper than when I bought them too :)

Where did you get the kit from?

I've been considering it, and I figured $2 CAD/kW is the 10-year break even point for me, which would be amazing since you can get a 10 year interest free loan for it.

Re: First anode-free sodium solid-state battery

#110

Post by redundantly »

thinkcontext wrote: post #101
portpecos wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a side note, most quotes I got from companies installing solar panels on my roof ranged between $3/kWh to $4/kWh.

Your units are wrong, kw not kwh. And your decimal place is wrong, the going rate is around $3 per watt. And I'm not sure how you were trying to relate that to battery storage.

I believe the person you responded to was talking about battery storage for solar set ups.
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