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Neal Stephenson wants to revolutionize sword fighting video games

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Re: Neal Stephenson wants to revolutionize sword fighting video games

#71

Post by eblume »

TrevorJ wrote: post #62
yummyfajitas wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will also have to drastically downplay the importance of footwork. In a real swordfight, where to put your feet is nearly as important as where to put the sword.

This is really true. There are a lot of great stage combat clubs and groups around the country, after a certain point, it seems like it might just be more fun to go spar for real, or go learn some real choreography if you want the added 6 layers of safety (a must if you are using steel, IMO).

That was my thought as well. If I need to buy some fancy hardware and swing it around to play a game... I'll probably just go buy a practice foil and sign up for a class instead!

Re: Neal Stephenson wants to revolutionize sword fighting video games

#72

Post by msfd »

znt wrote: post #21
psykotic wrote: post #5

Anyone remember Die by the Sword? Admittedly it was more sword flailing than sword fighting, but it's the only game I've played that had a semblance of direct control. It was also the first game to use IK for everything from sword fighting to rope swinging and ladder climbing. Even nowadays it's rare to see IK used in games for anything except relatively minor pose fix-ups (blending canned poses offers better control…

You should try out Mount & Blade series then.

Also there is Dark Messiah of Might and Magic in the First Person Sworder(?) range.

Not a very realistic game, but very enjoyable.

Re: Neal Stephenson wants to revolutionize sword fighting video games

#73

Post by derleth »

1123581321 wrote: post #46
dfc wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the average video gamer is significantly less fit than the average medieval soldier. I am curious if this is just speculation or if you have evidence for this statement? At first it seems reasonable but I am not so confident after you factor in modern medicine and advances in nutrition/diet and discount for stereotyping.

Look into the physical fitness of Amish and the less developed world in general. You will also find the answer in any researched history of medieval life. The short answer is that a typical modern person (gamer or no) is much less fit than anybody from the age of melee weapons, let alone knights.

> The short answer is that a typical modern person (gamer or no) is much less fit than anybody from the age of melee weapons, let alone knights.

But I don't have smallpox. Or cholera. Or an iodine deficiency, because I live so far from the ocean.

Re: Neal Stephenson wants to revolutionize sword fighting video games

#74

Post by defen »

I'm curious how they plan to implement actual medieval / early Renaissance combat tactics with a controller like the one in the video - how would you do half-swording or something like the Mordhau?

For people who aren't medieval geeks - half-sword is when you hold the sword halfway up the blade with your left hand, in order to deliver a more accurate, powerful thrust; perhaps after trapping your opponent's sword between your arm and body. Mordhau ("murder-strike") is when you invert the sword and use it as a mace. These things came about because swinging a sword into an armored opponent isn't actually going to do much to him.

It seems like the kind of combat you could simulate might potentially be fun, but wouldn't actually simulate a real fight from the period - not enough grappling / bashing.

Re: Neal Stephenson wants to revolutionize sword fighting video games

#76

Post by yummyfajitas »

dmoy wrote: post #54
tikhonj wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course fencing, especially at the higher levels, is much more a sport than a form of combat. I'm only intimately familiar with saber, but there the rules play a very important role. Having the right of way changes everything, and a lot of blade contact is about getting the right of way rather than actually preventing your opponent from doing something. If you have the right of way, you don't care about being hit a…

Parrying only works with heavy, slow weapons. The unfortunate reality is that with a light, fast weapon, you do not have the time or reaction speed to actually parry. "Parrying" doesn't really happen. Getting the f * away with your feet is the only option. So yes I suppose it does matter what you mean by "real swordfighting." If you mean standing there decked out in 50lbs++ of metal armor with a giant sword & shield,…

The unfortunate reality is that with a light, fast weapon, you do not have the time or reaction speed to actually parry. "Parrying" doesn't really happen. Getting the f away with your feet is the only option.*

I don't agree with this. I practice eskrima and we block/parry a lot. It's a lot easier to move a 0.2kg stick than your whole body (50-100kg).

But blocking/parrying is not a substitute for footwork, it's a complement to it. If your footwork is good, your opponent might only be able to attack you from 1-2 directions. Blocking 2 directions is far easier than blocking 12 (8 in competition [1]).

[1] For safety reasons, thrusting and knee strikes are not allowed. Nor are strikes to the back of the head.

Re: Neal Stephenson wants to revolutionize sword fighting video games

#77

Post by 1123581321 »

derleth wrote: post #73
1123581321 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look into the physical fitness of Amish and the less developed world in general. You will also find the answer in any researched history of medieval life. The short answer is that a typical modern person (gamer or no) is much less fit than anybody from the age of melee weapons, let alone knights.

> The short answer is that a typical modern person (gamer or no) is much less fit than anybody from the age of melee weapons, let alone knights. But I don't have smallpox. Or cholera. Or an iodine deficiency, because I live so far from the ocean.

That is another discussion since we are talking about fitness, specifically upper body strength and endurance, not rates of illness.

Re: Neal Stephenson wants to revolutionize sword fighting video games

#78

Post by nosse »

tikhonj wrote: post #52
dmoy wrote: post #11

Real swordfighting is not about the sword, it's about the footwork. Just physically do not be where the opponent's sword is heading. See: relatively little blade contact in extremely high level fencing.

Of course fencing, especially at the higher levels, is much more a sport than a form of combat. I'm only intimately familiar with saber, but there the rules play a very important role. Having the right of way changes everything, and a lot of blade contact is about getting the right of way rather than actually preventing your opponent from doing something. If you have the right of way, you don't care about being hit a…

Parry with a sword was actually really uncommon last resort for the most of history. Viking blades for example dented really bad if they clashed. There is a saga about combatants beating several wooden shields to splinters until the blades clashed and both swords broke.

For samurai, the same is true. For heavily armored knight's, well they tried to poke each other in the eye mostly.

Me and my little brother with boffer-swords? Same story again. I found first hand experience that usually it's lot more usable to dodge the blow while simultaneously trying a counter blow than to parry. And the more you need footwork the more you have opponents.

Re: Neal Stephenson wants to revolutionize sword fighting video games

#79

Post by tomelders »

daenz wrote: post #14

Cameo by Gabe Newell http://i.imgur.com/6vDza.png , who is swordsmithing a crowbar :) Neal: "Hey is that about ready?" Gabe: "These things, they take time..."

I think Gabe's soul purpose in life now is to just troll Half Life fans.

Re: Neal Stephenson wants to revolutionize sword fighting video games

#80

Post by dasil003 »

trevelyan wrote: post #10

I don't mind putting a bit of cash towards projects where those involved really don't have the resources to pull it off otherwise, but does Neal Stephenson really not have enough cash to bootstrap this himself?

Stephenson is no doubt an extremely successful writer, but that doesn't confer the type of resources that being an extremely successful entrepreneur does. And game development doesn't come cheap either, especially not innovative game development.
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