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Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

reuters.com

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Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#151
post #73
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Whats the difference between mobsters owning a city , demanding money from all shops and Apple? Apple produces and sells the device. Without Apple, you wouldn’t be able to build these apps; whereas the shops would exist without the mobsters. (not trying to defend Apple, just answering the question)

Consumers buy these devices. Apple doesn't give them away for free. A consumer should be able to run whatever they want on the devices they have purchased. We are a long way from achieving this basic goal.

> A consumer should be able to run whatever they want on the devices they have purchased.

That has probably never been the case for any product in any category. Your car can't fly, even though you think that the customer is always right.

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#152
post #54
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That the only way to get applications on your phone is going through Apple, or a gatekeeper approved by apple, is a problem in itself too. That the first "app store" approved is built on predatory free to play gaming money is also a problem.

The first app store approved is Altstore PAL: https://rileytestut.com/blog/2024/04/17/introducing-altstore...

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Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#153
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some call it "the Apple tax". To that end, I see this as more like the invention of courts and a police force in a world that was previously an anarchy. Yes, I lose the power to do things; in exchange, I genuinely gain the security of some measure of defence against other people doing things at my expense. I remember when we could actually read all the code on our computers — that time has passed even when the source…

You're essentially arguing that King John should have exclusive right to publish books, and that he should be able to prevent the barons from publishing unapproved books - the DMA gives anyone the right to publish apps including you and I and Epic. I might agree that Epic should be prevented from publishing their apps, but by a Democratically elected government, not by a private warlord. If Epic is doing something wr…

> You're essentially arguing that King John should have exclusive right to publish books, and that he should be able to prevent the barons from publishing unapproved books - the DMA gives anyone the right to publish apps including you and I and Epic.

The thing I'm referencing is Magna Carta, specifically where the conflict was over "can the King force me to use his own courts when I sue him?" — this didn't much affect the normal folk who never had to personally sue the king in his own personal courts.

Similarly, I:

(1) already had the ability to publish an app, and have done so on many occasions

(2) still don't have the means to start an entire app store because the obligations vastly exceed my competencies (and I don't have access to one million USD): https://developer.apple.com/support/alternative-app-marketpl...

> I might agree that Epic should be prevented from publishing their apps, but by a Democratically elected government, not by a private warlord. If Epic is doing something wrong, that should be a matter of public law, not a matter for a king to decide.

Sure, but this is the kind of thing we could — and others have and will anyway even if we don't — spend lifetimes arguing over every single nuance and subtlely of, including the extent to which a corporation is allowed to have the freedom to decide its own rules for who it does business with e.g. all the things Apple is doing (and all that Apple wants to refuse to do), or if the owner of a cake shop can refuse to do business with customers whose morals it disagrees with, and so on.

The only thing I'm sure of, is that I can't see the consequences of applying my first principles as if they were universal truths.

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#154
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...is the official App Store not built on predatory free to play gaming money? The top grossing games on iOS are all "free", and they have no rules against the most exploitative types of F2P monetization (gacha/pseudo-gambling). They have even featured gacha games like Genshin Impact during their launch events. Apple had no qualms about Fortnites monetization model when it was in the App Store either, other than the…

Yes so? I don't need another app store for free to play crap. No one does.

Ah but if they’re forced to compete, the same “crap” might not automatically top the charts.

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple built the city and you're free to go anywhere else.

"free to go anywhere else" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in a state/province with 2 "cities". Google isn't being hit as hard by the DMA, but they didn't get off scot-free either.

But you can sideload on Android no? I've sideloaded a few apps that I needed and there really are no problems.

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#156
post #8

> Apple is now telling reporters that this approval is temporary and are demanding we change the buttons in the next version https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/180933674561328744...

Hmm, what? They are supposed to notarize application for security reasons, not make a review about design. Not their store, not their rules.

Unless that design violates Apple trademarks or patents. Apple notarizing an infringement would be used by Epic to defend their infringement.

Epic isn't the victim here, they are acting like spoiled children.

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That argument didn't work for Microsoft in the 90's (just install BSD or buy a mac if you don't like IE), I don't know why it should work for Apple who's gotten much bigger than 90's MS.

Microsoft was actually abusing their dominance in a criminal way to stop competition. The situation is far from comparable.

Hmm. So can I publish and let users download my iOS application without being harassed by Apple? Because on Windows and MacOS I can do that.

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#158
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unity got raked over the coals for *retroactively* changing the licensing fees for developers in a way that negatively impacted a common existing business model amongst their customers. It’s fair to not like the Apple fees but the scenario isn’t equivalent. One was a rug pull. If they did that all along it wouldn’t have been as big an issue.

I'd say it's still equivalent. I just think apple was smart knowing most people are comfy in the walled garden and won't throw up a fuss. Similar to Unity, these pricing ding the smaller people the most. But unlike Unity, the bigger players aren't joining the protest. I guess I was just foolish thinking businesses would at least think in the middle-term of "what if we want our own storefront one day ". I guess the EU…

How are they equivalent other than a fee existing at all, and how is that different than a revenue share that Epic do? Apple hasn’t added a new fee to existing devs. The reason you see apathy is that this doesn’t negatively change the status quo.

It provides new options. Granted they might not like the terms of the new options , as you clearly don’t. But nothing has been taken away from them in the process. It is completely unsurprising that there is apathy.

Unity tried to change the terms from under people which changed their livelihood prospective negatively.

If the only equivalence is that there’s a fee, then that applies to a lot more to the point it’s meaningless. Epic do a revenue share. Unity should have done a revenue share but did something more trackable without requiring regular audits.

Ultimately it wasn’t Unity’s actual fee that was the problem, had it been a new tier. But it retroactively changed things for people.

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are refusing to leave Russian market and are actively cooperating with Russian government - see blocking VPNs few days ago. Russian market is much poorer and smaller. If they are refusing to leave this market, leaving EU market is ludicrous to even think about.

That does not change the fact that they have a choice.

If you willingly take no profit (Leaving market) over less profit (Losing control over AppStore in the market) then you can be almost sure that shareholders are going to sue you and I would bet shareholders would win such lawsuit. So no Apple doesn't have this choice.

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#160
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? You can buy an Android, or one of its derivatives, or a Huawei.

That argument didn't work for Microsoft in the 90's (just install BSD or buy a mac if you don't like IE), I don't know why it should work for Apple who's gotten much bigger than 90's MS.

Because the situations are different? Apple has at best, 50% of the market. They sell their own hardware, and the OS is only available on that hardware. They don't force other phone manufacturers to buy iOS licenses even though they're shipping phones without iOS. You can't even buy a license for iOS except to buy the actual hardware from Apple. All the same software, with the singular exception of Apple's own first party software and perhaps some small indie softare, is available on the competing platform. The competing platform is sold by multiple vendors, comes in multiple different options and is just as well supported by 3rd party developers and businesses. The terms and conditions of the Apple store, and the associated fees are as bad or better than they have ever been. There has been no bait and switch, no undercutting the market to oust competitors. In fact, iOS devices as a rule are some of the most expensive devices in their respective classes. They offer access to all of your data in industry standard formats if you decide you want to switch, and Google themselves offer an automatic switching application that will transfer that data for you. If Apple dominates, it is because consumers overwhelming choose that. There is nothing that stops people from buying from any number of vendors that sell fully comparable alternatives, and no reason other than preferring the locked down experience that Apple sells to buy an iOS device.
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