Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#111

Post by olelele » Sat, Jul 06, 2024, 1:45 PM UTC

Rinzler89 wrote: post #46

lostlogin wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> similar regulation passed or on the way. With exclusions that suit them. As you say, the wind is blowing the right way, it would be nice to see but console games get the same treatment.

>With exclusions that suit them. Excuse them because they want their own rules and regulations on their territory and not the default US rules that ship with Google and Apple devices. That would be like Budweiser selling their beer in Europe with the condition you have to be 21 to drink it because that's how it is where they're from.

Except we have real beer in Europe:)

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#112

Post by nucleardog » Sat, Jul 06, 2024, 1:49 PM UTC

solarkraft wrote: post #97

nucleardog wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s kinda strange to see so many people taking Epic’s account here at face value given they’ve been fined multiple times in multiple countries over their existing store (Fortnite). For example: > The FTC says Fortnite's "counterintuitive, inconsistent, and confusing button configuration led players to incur unwanted charges based on the press of a single button." > Because of those design tricks, the regulator says…

Epic‘s no saint, but I don’t expect them to outright lie about something they’ll likely present to officials. Especially considering that the alleged behavior is exactly in line with what Apple has been doing for a long time.

I mean, so far what we've got is mostly some statements on Twitter. Given how much of this fight has been waged in the media, I put a lot less faith in that than you do.

If there's some actual filings with the EU about this somewhere I'd definitely be interested to read them. If Apple's actually rejecting this application because "they used standard platform buttons in a standard platform way", then yeah, nail them to the wall.

I'm just not to ready to jump to "nail them to the wall" based on a company with a history of dark patterns in their UI designs claiming on Twitter that Apple took issue with their UI designs.

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#113

Post by immibis » Sat, Jul 06, 2024, 2:03 PM UTC

DEADMINCEDOS wrote: post #110

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If they leave the EU market and have no presence, then EU laws can't reach them Selling your product in the EU means having an EU presence. Like, I can’t just ship heroin to Europe from abroad and claim I’m immune.

> Selling your product in the EU means having an EU presence. Ehhhhhh. Kind of. Maybe. Certainly not always. I mean, if there is some shitty little porn company in say, California, and they make porn that say, caters to a fetish that is legal in California but illegal in the EU, well, what then? The porn company isn't doing anything wrong, and EU laws are irrelevant. At this point they can try to firewall off the com…

The EU could start blocking payments to that porn studio. Avoiding the block would be money laundering, which is also illegal in California. The EU (or it's constituent countries - not sure) also controls imports, and could seize and destroy illegally purchased iPhones at the border. Every one of my international purchases is already stopped and processed by customs to evaluate import taxes. It would be quite easy for them to simply say "you can't import this."

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#114

Post by throwAGIway » Sat, Jul 06, 2024, 2:06 PM UTC

hu3 wrote: post #109

throwAGIway wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That still doesn't give you any right to just take what Apple built for free. Maybe there's no right option for you - I know there isn't for me, I'd prefer to have Windows Mobile (not Phone) again.

Apple didn't build it for free and isn't giving it away for free either. These are $1000+ devices. It's like buying a house and still not owning it.

Indeed, and they saw that software of sufficient quality can't be funded merely by sales of these devices, and decided to create a platform where the software publishers share the cost with the end users.

I yearn for Windows Mobile but it has suffered from this problem greatly. Same with early Nokia and Sony Ericsson phones with smarter features like J2ME.

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#115

Post by blackeyeblitzar » Sat, Jul 06, 2024, 2:09 PM UTC

tgv wrote: post #31

blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #11

Apple needs to be heavily taxed and regulated into operating their devices like general computers free of their authoritarianism

Why? You can buy an Android, or one of its derivatives, or a Huawei.

It’s not very different on Android, and anyone big enough distorts the market. There is no real competition or choice here for the market to work. That’s why regulation is needed. To be clear I want Google and Microsoft regulated similarly on both mobile devices and regular computers.

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#116

Post by ksec » Sat, Jul 06, 2024, 2:28 PM UTC

It is sad state of things. I dislike Apple's inconsistency and hypocrisy. And it was themselves which ultimately lead to the whole regulation.

But I still think regulation or government intervention is bad for everybody. As we now have precedence to decouple a lot of things in the name of Anti-Trust or Monopoly.

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#117

Post by johnnyanmac » Sat, Jul 06, 2024, 2:30 PM UTC

throwAGIway wrote: post #114

hu3 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple didn't build it for free and isn't giving it away for free either. These are $1000+ devices. It's like buying a house and still not owning it.

Indeed, and they saw that software of sufficient quality can't be funded merely by sales of these devices, and decided to create a platform where the software publishers share the cost with the end users. I yearn for Windows Mobile but it has suffered from this problem greatly. Same with early Nokia and Sony Ericsson phones with smarter features like J2ME.

>and they saw that software of sufficient quality can't be funded merely by sales of these device

I don't think Microsoft of the 90's, pre-"I take 30% as a gatekeeper" crashed and burned because it didn't leech enough funds from developers. Quite the contrary, It encouraged and empowered future entrepreneurs and customers alike, thinikg in the long term. .

>i yearn for Windows Mobile but it has suffered from this problem greatly.

Pricing wasn't the issue. Remember that this was the days where phone carriers subsidized phones with contracts, so no one was paying 600-1000 outright like today. It was a mix of lacking tech and UX needed. And a gargantuan marketing campaign.

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#118

Post by johnnyanmac » Sat, Jul 06, 2024, 2:32 PM UTC

hu3 wrote: post #109

throwAGIway wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That still doesn't give you any right to just take what Apple built for free. Maybe there's no right option for you - I know there isn't for me, I'd prefer to have Windows Mobile (not Phone) again.

Apple didn't build it for free and isn't giving it away for free either. These are $1000+ devices. It's like buying a house and still not owning it.

That's sadly how deeds work, 2008 taught that lesson.

Still, I don't understand people defending a trillion dollar company for doing things much worse than what wad torn apart in us courts 30 years prior. Sad that the EU needs to pick up that torch, but it is what it is.

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#119

Post by johnnyanmac » Sat, Jul 06, 2024, 2:40 PM UTC

nottorp wrote: post #94

johnnyanmac wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Tencent didn't get all their investment money from Gacha in the asian market? Got some, but thinking Tencent got all their money from Gacha is like saying Google got all its money from Search. Tencent's reach is in nearly every industry in China. >And please don't tell me Tencent is a minority investor or that there are non predatory IAPs I won't, but do you really believe all add-ons are predatory? This attitude is…

> This attitude is exactly why you can't make premium mobile anymore Premium? Freemium? The few mobile apps that I bought since i got a smart phone are all pay once and most of them cost more than 0.99. However, for example, I do not even bother to look at mobile games any more because I "know" they'll be an IAP crapfest. And if i look at applications, it's because they have been mentioned and deemed useful by a thir…

It varies per app. Most common models:

- ad supported, pay once to remove ads

- subscription model. Get basic features and maybe ads, pay some 2-5 dollars a month for premium features. These may or may not have a "lifetime" option which is basically pay once.

- the dying breed of "demo mode". You play X levels and then you pay once for a "full game".

- and then freemium models which is basically a free game with small and large tricks to encourage spending over time.This is probably where you are.

But outside of that, yes. There are still premium games you buy like a console game (they are often ports of console games). But it's a niche because they are competing against a sea of "free" games. And many mobile gamers do just want 10-20 minutes of a quick fix, not even long enough to get past tutorials in larger games.

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#120

Post by johnnyanmac » Sat, Jul 06, 2024, 2:48 PM UTC

ben_w wrote: post #92

johnnyanmac wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Perfect is the enemy of the good. I think it goes both ways. Perfection is letting me control the hardware I bought and tweak the software to my liking. them throwing their hands up because of their motte argument of "security" doesn't resonate with me. Especially when the bailey argument is simply "we want to control everything you do". Here, it's "don't even try to achieve good, avoid bad at all costs". In my mind…

Some call it "the Apple tax". To that end, I see this as more like the invention of courts and a police force in a world that was previously an anarchy. Yes, I lose the power to do things; in exchange, I genuinely gain the security of some measure of defence against other people doing things at my expense. I remember when we could actually read all the code on our computers — that time has passed even when the source…

>I genuinely gain the security of some measure of defence against other people doing things at my expense.

If I need security, I buy anti-virus. But I can't opt out of Apples "security". I don't see that as a good thing. If apple wanted to offer that at checkout, I wouldn't mind at all.

Worst case scenario, I backup all my stuff. My phone exploding should not ruin any more of my livliehood than losing a few days of phone calls would. I can protect myself without some non-consentual agreement from a vendor whose relationship should end after the device ships to my address. that time has passed even when the source code is fully published simply because the volume is too great, and we must either trust someone to do it for us (or at least that someone has liability if it goes wrong), or have some manner of insurance because doing so is impractical.

>that time has passed even when the source code is fully published simply because the volume is too great, and we must either trust someone to do it for us (or at least that someone has liability if it goes wrong), or have some manner of insurance because doing so is impractical.

I'm not going to pretend I consult the AOSP everytime I hit an odd quirk on my android. But I like the ease of mind knowing I can take my ball and go home if Google goes rogue (and I can argue thst it has already done so, years ago).

I ultimate trust people mush smarter than me for that, but I like having more than one biased source to rely on. And heck, I might help contribute if angry enough. That's the power of open source. The best possible insurance when I go in loops under "official channels".