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Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

reuters.com

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Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#101

Post by nottorp »

jsheard wrote: post #65
nottorp wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That the only way to get applications on your phone is going through Apple, or a gatekeeper approved by apple, is a problem in itself too. That the first "app store" approved is built on predatory free to play gaming money is also a problem.

...is the official App Store not built on predatory free to play gaming money? The top grossing games on iOS are all "free", and they have no rules against the most exploitative types of F2P monetization (gacha/pseudo-gambling). They have even featured gacha games like Genshin Impact during their launch events. Apple had no qualms about Fortnites monetization model when it was in the App Store either, other than the…

Yes so? I don't need another app store for free to play crap. No one does.

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#102

Post by DEADMINCEDOS »

nottorp wrote: post #93
DEADMINCE wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Translate what you like, it doesn't change my point: Free to play is not inherently predatory. There's a big difference between free to play and using as many dirty tricks as they can to fleece as much info as possible (and/or being pay to win), and a company that genuinely makes a free to play game and makes money off skins, because it made better business sense than charging $50 up front.

> Free to play is not inherently predatory. See below. > genuinely makes a free to play game [...] because it made better business sense than charging $50 up front. So the free to play model fleeces you for more money. It's not predatory. At all. Honest.

> See below.

See above.

> So the free to play model fleeces you for more money. It's not predatory. At all. Honest.

Ah, I see the cause of the misunderstanding. You're assuming the free to play model fleeces people for more money always when that simply isn't true. It's obviously true when companies are playing dirty, but not all companies do. Consider little indie studios, for example.

Quite often, free to play can end up costing people less money. Case in point, I played CSGO for 10+ years and spent less than $5 on it. If I had bought the game when it came out it would have cost $20 or so.

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#103

Post by DEADMINCEDOS »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #79
DEADMINCE wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, if it's too much, they will just pull out of the EU and sell to Europeans via online only. EU citizens will still be Apple customers, just without any EU protections. To be fair, the EU is being a bit ridiculous sometimes. Apple decided not to compete in the EU because of the restrictions, and the EU seemingly wanted to penalize that decision also.

> if it's too much, they will just pull out of the EU and sell to Europeans via online only This doesn’t exempt them from the law. Apple is never giving up the EU.

> This doesn’t exempt them from the law.

Sure it does. If they leave the EU market and have no presence, then EU laws can't reach them.

> Apple is never giving up the EU.

I would normally agree, but if EU fines surpass the profit Apple can make in the EU, they might.

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#104

Post by DEADMINCEDOS »

servus45678981 wrote: post #77
DEADMINCE wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's a problem for those who already bought Apple and didn't know any better or didn't care. Also, not everyone likes the only available other alternative, which is Google, as while they allow sideloading, they're still a privacy nightmare ad-ware company. If you do care about privacy and having control of your own hardware, Google is the only choice, and that should be very obvious. Not because Android is so much…

There is Cyndia and other projects like sandcastle and stuff… Android is not the better choice; at all

Android is the better choice not due to Android specifically, but rather due to Android as a platform which includes the hardware that the Android OS can run on, and all the forks of Android.

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#105

Post by JumpCrisscross »

DEADMINCEDOS wrote: post #103
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if it's too much, they will just pull out of the EU and sell to Europeans via online only This doesn’t exempt them from the law. Apple is never giving up the EU.

> This doesn’t exempt them from the law. Sure it does. If they leave the EU market and have no presence, then EU laws can't reach them. > Apple is never giving up the EU. I would normally agree, but if EU fines surpass the profit Apple can make in the EU, they might.

> If they leave the EU market and have no presence, then EU laws can't reach them

Selling your product in the EU means having an EU presence. Like, I can’t just ship heroin to Europe from abroad and claim I’m immune.

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#106

Post by DEADMINCEDOS »

nottorp wrote: post #99
DEADMINCE wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's a problem for those who already bought Apple and didn't know any better or didn't care. Also, not everyone likes the only available other alternative, which is Google, as while they allow sideloading, they're still a privacy nightmare ad-ware company. If you do care about privacy and having control of your own hardware, Google is the only choice, and that should be very obvious. Not because Android is so much…

> If you do care about privacy and having control of your own hardware, Google is the only choice, and that should be very obvious. Google is an ad company so it's totally not obvious to me. > Not because Android is so much better, but because you have a lot of options, even using a custom rom if you want. Oh, and can I pay with my phone when using those custom roms, for example?

> Google is an ad company so it's totally not obvious to me.

Google being an ad company is irrelevant here. I wasn't clear in my wording, I should have said 'Android as a platform' and not Google, is the only choice, and it is.

Sure, there are disadvantages and it's not perfect, but it doesn't matter. If you care about privacy, using something like Graphene or eOS on a Fairphone is your best option.

> Oh, and can I pay with my phone when using those custom roms, for example?

The demand isn't there for that. Help change that and be the change you want to see in the world.

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#107

Post by throwitaway1123 »

rambambram wrote: post #26
cafed00d wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can’t a business be built solely without giving Apple a dime? The web is free — as in freedom and as in gratis. It has a developer tools system funded by hundreds of companies, developers and community members. There’s hardly any order of dipping, if any. Why doesn’t the web compete away Apple’s “dips”?

The web is more than good enough. There's just a lot of people drinking the kool-aid and believing big tech's subtle and not so subtle messages about the web being shite. Of course the web is shite on devices from companies that compete with the web. They actively undermine it.

The web is absolutely more than good enough for the vast majority of apps. I was playing Quake Live in the browser on a thermally throttled dual core laptop 15 years ago, but the hive mind here at HN will have you believe that the generic social media apps that dominate the charts all need to be "close to the metal": https://apps.apple.com/us/charts/iphone/top-free-apps/36

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#108

Post by squigz »

jajko wrote: post #58
127 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The alternative is to leave EU market. They do have a choice in the matter.

Both are good choices TBH. Maybe Apple is utterly incompatible with the way we Europeans (at least western part for sure) treat freedom and moral behavior and expect companies adhere to those principles. Not empty phrases or half-assed gestures all over the place, but real, concrete, measurable, long term at least good enough behavior. I'd say fine every transgression progressively so much it hurts their finances so…

Out of curiosity, do you think that Apple's customers in Europe would be appreciative of their entire platform being strongarmed into stopping service?

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#109

Post by hu3 »

throwAGIway wrote: post #96
johnnyanmac wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"free to go anywhere else" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in a state/province with 2 "cities". Google isn't being hit as hard by the DMA, but they didn't get off scot-free either.

That still doesn't give you any right to just take what Apple built for free. Maybe there's no right option for you - I know there isn't for me, I'd prefer to have Windows Mobile (not Phone) again.

Apple didn't build it for free and isn't giving it away for free either.

These are $1000+ devices.

It's like buying a house and still not owning it.

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#110

Post by DEADMINCEDOS »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #105
DEADMINCEDOS wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This doesn’t exempt them from the law. Sure it does. If they leave the EU market and have no presence, then EU laws can't reach them. > Apple is never giving up the EU. I would normally agree, but if EU fines surpass the profit Apple can make in the EU, they might.

> If they leave the EU market and have no presence, then EU laws can't reach them Selling your product in the EU means having an EU presence. Like, I can’t just ship heroin to Europe from abroad and claim I’m immune.

> Selling your product in the EU means having an EU presence.

Ehhhhhh. Kind of. Maybe. Certainly not always.

I mean, if there is some shitty little porn company in say, California, and they make porn that say, caters to a fetish that is legal in California but illegal in the EU, well, what then?

The porn company isn't doing anything wrong, and EU laws are irrelevant. At this point they can try to firewall off the company, punish ISPs, maybe punish citizens who do business with that company, because it isn't breaking any EU laws, and has no EU presence that can be fined, sieved, etc.

This is very normal, this is the way international laws work barring treaties or other agreements to have a special arrangement outside of that.

So, if Apple pulls out of the EU, maybe they can no longer ship mail to the EU, I'm doubtful of that but let's just say. Well, there are plenty of non EU countries close by, including the UK. Not really a problem for EU citizens to get one at all, so again, the EU can only punish people, not the company.

> Like, I can’t just ship heroin to Europe from abroad and claim I’m immune.

If it was legal to do so in the sending country, sure you could. That isn't true for any country though, so it's not a great analogy.

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