How much of other modern research has the same amount of issues, but doesn't have any motivated critics to uncover it?
Research into homeopathy: data falsification, fabrication and manipulation
71–80 of 172 posts
Re: Research into homeopathy: data falsification, fabrication and manipulation
#72What I don't get about homeopathy is that there's not even a plausible mechanism for it to work. So research into its effectiveness is like studying how well rocks repel tigers[1]. It seems necessary to show that a homeopathic "medicine" is substantially different than plain old water first. [1] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4GzMizVAl-0&pp=ygUTc2ltcHNvbnM...
Like any cult pseudoscience it relies on the placebo and nocebo effects.
It also does affect people for sure... For things like a very real ear infection... the a-holes will leave kids in agony for weeks before parents see a proper physician for antibiotics.
Note Psychoneuroimmunology is also interesting, but a more legitimate area of scientific study. It takes a deep scientific look into induced immune system disorders, and unlike cult nonsense it has quantifiable scientific studies (usually done with rodents) that can be replicated in your own institutional labs.
Cult Homeopathy is just expensive child neglect in my opinion... offering the worst outcomes for the naive and superstitious.
Re: Research into homeopathy: data falsification, fabrication and manipulation
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
THE PLACEBO EFFECT: It works even when you know it's a placebo.
This is an incorrect summary of the placebo effect. The placebo effect does require the patient to either believe it is effective, or at least not knowing clearly it is ineffective. This is why clinical studies don't tell neither group (neither the treated group nor the control group) who is in which group, to not spoil the results. And also, this is why homeopathy puts so much effort into spreading the belief they a…
Contrast this with advertisement, which actually does work even when people know that it is ads, and which still does work on people how know how ads work.
Also, contrast this with psychotherapy, which usually does work even better if the patient understands how it works, because it enables them to become an active and more effective part of the therapy.
Re: Research into homeopathy: data falsification, fabrication and manipulation
#74I wish more German doctors would acknowledge what utter quackery homeopathy is. Three separate doctors wanted to prescribe me homeopathy stuff last year, ended up not getting any help at all.
I think doctors do this when they want to give you a placebo. Pharmacies don’t carry placebos but they sure do carry a lot of products that don’t do anything except make you believe you took some medicine.
Hence the note that UK GPs would sometimes put on patient’s notes: TEETH
Tried Everything Else Try Homeopathy
Re: Research into homeopathy: data falsification, fabrication and manipulation
#75I still don't understand why these can be sold in American pharmacies.
They're even covered by some insurance plans. A friend of mine is an orthopedic surgeon, and they explained to me that for mild problems, which would normally heal on their own, it's cheaper to cover a placebo rather than real medication.
This is basically how TCM came to be!
The Chinese Communist Party had billions being raised out of incredible poverty and that populace started demanding medical care. There was no possible way to supply enough clinics, doctors, nurses, etc - and not just because Mao whipped the Red Guard into an anti-intellectual froth than then slaughtered much of China's academic/scientific community.
So Mao waved his hands and invented TCM, which basically said "oh yeah, most of these traditional Chinese medicines work. We did some research and figured out which ones and how to apply them!"
Hilariously people argue TCM doesn't work not because it's complete bullshit, but because it's a modified, corrupted version of actual Chinese medicine...
Re: Research into homeopathy: data falsification, fabrication and manipulation
#76Homeopathy is total BS, but the placebo effect is real. Is there a way that medical science can allow people to benefit from the latter without rewarding quacks who push the former?
I’ve never understood why this isn’t explored more. It’s like, at some point we discovered the placebo effect, which has got to have been a pretty shocking result, right? I just can’t fathom that the entire scientific community just went “ah, hm, right, placebo. I see. I guess we need to do our random-controlled-trials with a placebo control group now”. Wait, that’s it? Nobody went “wtf woa we can cure a % of people…
Because prescribing a placebo while saying it's a medicine involves lying to the patient, which is controversial when ethical standards usually involve informed consent and a belief in patient autonomy.
> I just can’t fathom that the entire scientific community just went “ah, hm, right, placebo. I see. I guess we need to do our random-controlled-trials with a placebo control group now”. Wait, that’s it?
see that's because they didn't go like that - there's even an section on the ethics of using them in medical practice on the wikipedia article for placebo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo#In_medical_practice
Plus it's a pretty important topic of discussion when it comes to pain management/opiod crisis. Unsurprisingly, a large group of professionals did not, in fact, randomly decide to ignore a very large and obvious question in the field
Re: Research into homeopathy: data falsification, fabrication and manipulation
#77I still don't understand why these can be sold in American pharmacies.
In France they were funded by the social security up to 15%, but luckily this stopped in 2021. I had some as a kid and my mom is still a strong "believer" in them. I don't see any harm in selling them IF and only if they don't prevent people from taking other "real" treatments. But other than this it's just placebo.
> and only if they don't prevent people from taking other "real" treatments
This is the dominant harm, yeah. As we know from infosec, few things are more dangerous than a false sense of security, and that's exactly what ineffective drugs provide.
Re: Research into homeopathy: data falsification, fabrication and manipulation
#78I still don't understand why these can be sold in American pharmacies.
Re: Research into homeopathy: data falsification, fabrication and manipulation
#79I still don't understand why these can be sold in American pharmacies.
They're even covered by some insurance plans. A friend of mine is an orthopedic surgeon, and they explained to me that for mild problems, which would normally heal on their own, it's cheaper to cover a placebo rather than real medication.
Indulging without argument a patient's harmless fantasies economizes on physician time, and that is surely the most precious resource.
Re: Research into homeopathy: data falsification, fabrication and manipulation
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
They're even covered by some insurance plans. A friend of mine is an orthopedic surgeon, and they explained to me that for mild problems, which would normally heal on their own, it's cheaper to cover a placebo rather than real medication.
While I hear this argumentation a lot, I still struggle with this: If you have "mild problems, which would normally heal on their own", buying no medication at all would be even cheaper. And from an ethical point of view, the idea of financing a whole (homeopathic) industry that uses your money to produce fake science, even with a single cent, should make one shudder, shouldn't it?
To those who downvoted: Would you dare to explain your disagreement?