Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent system “dysfunctional” • Hacker News Board

Re: Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent system “dysfunctional”

#111

Post by reader5000 » Sat, Jun 09, 2012, 3:15 PM UTC

wpietri wrote: post #108

derleth wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That wasn't a racial attack You explicitly mentioned race. It's racist.

I see. And if I point out that the KKK is all white dudes, then I'm also being racist? What a meanie I am! Pointing out the unbalanced composition of a group meant to solve society's problems is not in any way racist. It's a specific application of the general rule that humans have hard time understanding the experiences of people different than themselves, especially when there's privilege involved.

Unlike the kkk, there is no indication the OP chose the three men on account of their race. To therefore attack them on the basis of their race is an ad hominem racial assault. Furthermore, obviously the three are privileged compared to a kid born in, say, Ethiopia, but I don't see how that illegitimates them for a discussion on America.

Re: Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent system “dysfunctional”

#112

Post by Locke1689 » Sat, Jun 09, 2012, 3:20 PM UTC

te_chris wrote: post #79

portman wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would like Paul Graham, Richard Posner, and perhaps Mike Bloomberg to have a long, meandering dinner party wherein they discuss and solve America's most important problems. It worked for Jefferson/Madison/Hamilton 222 years ago. This could be exactly what we need.

By the rich for the rich then? Sounds about right. Seriously though, you want 3 privileged, white men to decide the fate of your entire country? I'm all for smart people coming up with solutions, and I know your comment wasn't mean't to be taken too seriously, but this is just ridiculous. Technocracy is not the answer, no matter how much technologists would love it to be.

Technocracy is not the answer

Why not? Democracy doesn't seem to be so great.

Re: Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent system “dysfunctional”

#113

Post by crusso » Sat, Jun 09, 2012, 4:53 PM UTC

MartinCron wrote: post #60

AJ007 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it was not for the judicial branch, the internet would, as we know it today, would not exist. Remember such detestations as the Child Online Protection Act? Which, after being struck down, and the Supreme Court agreeing with the ruling, a John Ashcroft led Department of Justice continued to use tax payer money to push back through the courts? I suspect that the differences between functional and dysfunctional gove…

If it was not for the judicial branch, the internet would, as we know it today, would not exist. But for the judiciary, many of the liberties we take for granted wouldn't exist. It's easy to sneer at "activist judges" when you don't like how the rule, but never forget how brilliant the multi-branch system of government is.

> But for the judiciary, many of the liberties we take for granted wouldn't exist.

True. Then again, a lot of evil has been done by the judiciary. Particularly with the supreme court, you have a small number of unelected decision makers who wield an enormous amount of power.

> It's easy to sneer at "activist judges" when you don't like how the rule,

Let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater, though. "activist judges" is a loaded pejorative, but in the right context it labels a real corruption of our system that we should be wary of.

A true "activist judge" is one who gives the government new powers not explicitly granted by the US Constitution -- whether by allowing a new law to stand that doesn't pass Constitutional muster, or by creating new concepts out of thin air.

The Legislative body is where we want our laws to be constructed, since those guys are the easiest to control through democracy. We don't want that law making function to leak all over the system like into the judiciary and the bureaucracy of the executive branch where we don't have good mechanisms to track and control.

Re: Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent system “dysfunctional”

#114

Post by crusso » Sat, Jun 09, 2012, 5:18 PM UTC

portman wrote: post #73

pg wrote: post #40

What a wonderful surprise. I'd forgotten about the judicial branch, and now they appear like the cavalry to sort out this mess. Wouldn't it be great if they went after the patent trolls next?

I would like Paul Graham, Richard Posner, and perhaps Mike Bloomberg to have a long, meandering dinner party wherein they discuss and solve America's most important problems. It worked for Jefferson/Madison/Hamilton 222 years ago. This could be exactly what we need.

You referenced Mike Bloomberg in the same thought and within the same context as you did Thomas Jefferson?

Thomas Jefferson's head would explode if he witnessed the dictatorial authority with which Bloomberg is attempting to control the most minute aspects of citizens' lives.

Madison and Jefferson did everything they could to allow people to be free from the control of government. They would both be tremendously saddened by how our individual liberties that they worked so hard to protect have been given away to politicians and a government bureaucracy that is lunging headlong toward mediocrity and undeniable unsustainability.

When Alexis de Tocqueville toured the US in the early 1800's and wrote "Democracy in America", he noted the rugged individualism and lack of trust in anything from the government and the elite. He wrote that only in America could the culture and nature of the citizenry insulate itself from the inevitable erosion of democracy, "But one also finds in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to want to bring the strong down to their level, and which reduces men to preferring equality in servitude to inequality in freedom".

That America no longer exists. The slow march of government toward tyranny that Jefferson tried to warn us about passed a point of no return a long time ago.

Re: Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent system “dysfunctional”

#115

Post by andybak » Sat, Jun 09, 2012, 5:30 PM UTC

derleth wrote: post #107

te_chris wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That wasn't a racial attack, it was pointing out that the 3 people who he proposed to "fix" everything were among the most privileged people on the planet (in part due to the colour of their skin). This was done to try and make the point that, given past history, another round of letting the most privileged people on the planet come up with "solutions", probably won't get us very far.

> That wasn't a racial attack You explicitly mentioned race. It's racist.

That's the silliest statement I've read all day.

Re: Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent system “dysfunctional”

#116

Post by wwweston » Sat, Jun 09, 2012, 5:32 PM UTC

It didn't seem to make much difference when Posner endorsed Keynes as "the best guide we have to the [recent economic] crisis"; I don't expect his comments will make much difference to discussion of the patent system. In both cases, you have too many actors invested in a different view.

Re: Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent system “dysfunctional”

#117

Post by crusso » Sat, Jun 09, 2012, 5:42 PM UTC

arjunnarayan wrote: post #5

This opinion is both extraordinary and extremely significant. Richard Posner is probably the most prolific legal intellectual not on the supreme court. He co-writes, along with Gary Becker (Nobel Prize winner in Economics) this excellent blog http://www.becker-posner-blog.com/ Posner is the author of the 4th most cited Law Review article in the field of intellectual property law[1]. Most telling of all is this statis…

Thanks for the link. Posner and Becker exude knowledge and understanding of how societies and economies function.

To me, it's strange/sad how as a society we elect politicians that couldn't even understand that blog much less resonate with the ideas in there or (FSM forbid) author that level of scholarship.

Instead, we get endless class warfare demagoguery and debates on gay marriage. We pay so much for our government and are so poorly served.

Re: Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent system “dysfunctional”

#118

Post by crusso » Sat, Jun 09, 2012, 5:46 PM UTC

foz wrote: post #53

j-b wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An excellent quote from Posner: "The institutional structure of the United States is under stress. We might be in dangerous economic straits if the dollar were not the principal international reserve currency and the eurozone in deep fiscal trouble. We have a huge public debt, dangerously neglected infrastructure, a greatly overextended system of criminal punishment, a seeming inability to come to grips with grave en…

That post is an excellent read. He gets right to the heart of the biggest challenge facing the US right now. However there are no solutions put forward, a job which is unfortunately left up to the politicians.

Well, the solution is to elect politicians who are capable of understanding those concepts while having the ethical character necessary to act on behalf of our society.

Unfortunately, the electorate is mostly interested in Lindsay Lohan's latest car wreck and Miley Cyrus's engagement.

Re: Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent system “dysfunctional”

#119

Post by crusso » Sat, Jun 09, 2012, 6:00 PM UTC

te_chris wrote: post #96

reader5000 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe a racial attack is in any way an appropriate response to portman's comment.

That wasn't a racial attack, it was pointing out that the 3 people who he proposed to "fix" everything were among the most privileged people on the planet (in part due to the colour of their skin). This was done to try and make the point that, given past history, another round of letting the most privileged people on the planet come up with "solutions", probably won't get us very far.

>That wasn't a racial attack

"attack" might be a strong word, but it was definitely a racist comment. Whenever you generalize or predict behavior or outcomes based upon race, you've made a racist comment. Maybe you liked the sound of it. Doesn't really matter, though, does it?

Substitute "black" for "white" and how does your original statement sound?

You're decrying the solutions that those three guys could come up with in part because they're white. Maybe you wanted to say, "ethnically homogenous"?

Re: Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent system “dysfunctional”

#120

Post by scarmig » Sat, Jun 09, 2012, 7:39 PM UTC

crusso wrote: post #119

te_chris wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That wasn't a racial attack, it was pointing out that the 3 people who he proposed to "fix" everything were among the most privileged people on the planet (in part due to the colour of their skin). This was done to try and make the point that, given past history, another round of letting the most privileged people on the planet come up with "solutions", probably won't get us very far.

>That wasn't a racial attack "attack" might be a strong word, but it was definitely a racist comment. Whenever you generalize or predict behavior or outcomes based upon race, you've made a racist comment. Maybe you liked the sound of it. Doesn't really matter, though, does it? Substitute "black" for "white" and how does your original statement sound? You're decrying the solutions that those three guys could come up w…

I'm not so sure.

They were also described as men. Does that make it sexist?

They were also described as privileged. Does that make it class warfare?

The point is obviously that they come from the same, very particular place at the very top of the same hierarchy that's created the world we now live in. Simply because the media has chosen to glamorize those people more than others doesn't mean we should do the same.

Why not throw some equally intelligent and qualified people as Elinor Ostrom or Amartya Sen in there? Aside from the fact that they're probably a bit more left-leaning/sympathetic to the little guy than the three mentioned.