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Russia Claims Breakthrough With ATACMS

eurasiantimes.com

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Re: Russia Claims Breakthrough With ATACMS

#61

Post by mrtacy »

lawn wrote: post #38
klrtla wrote: post #31

Article claims that ATACMS have been highly effective, but all 5 missiles launched at Crimea recently were shot down. As usual, everything is completely unclear in this stalemate war where both sides regularly claim overwhelming successes yet nothing has changed for 2 years.

> As usual, everything is completely unclear Its only completely unclear if you think that the words of a dictatorship is equally trustworthy as a democracy plus the journalism of the rest of the free world.

Taken to the extreme, you can then also not trust the free world. Reuters also cites the Russian sources:

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-accuses-kyiv-usi...

So either Russia shot down 4 of the 5 missiles and they landed in apartment buildings, or the one that landed on the beach was also shot down.

Or they staged everything, including blowing up apartment buildings.

Unlikely, since Defense Secretary Austin had emergency phone calls after the beach incident.

Regarding the stalemate, maps shown at the Institute for the Study of War also show little change. No need for Russian sources here.

Re: Russia Claims Breakthrough With ATACMS

#62

Post by simion314 »

galkk wrote: post #22
simion314 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It was clear from the beginning that every weapon system used in Ukraine could and probably would land on the black market, that’s why Israel didn’t provide any own weapon system fearing it would land in the hands of their enemies. This is Zed propaganda/fake news , a soldier can't put a missile in his pocket and go home and exchange it for alcohol. I think the main concern is Ukrainians that are loyal to Kremlin an…

What about tank? https://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-soldier-defect-steal-tank-r... .

Ruzzia already has soviet tanks, and a Russian stole an helicopter and defected.

But my imagination fails me to see how a soldiers is smuggling a missile, it won't fit in his pockets/ass and he can't ride it to Kremlin and they must be some good kilometers behind the font lines. so tell me how you imagine this happening ?

Re: Russia Claims Breakthrough With ATACMS

#63

Post by jfengel »

medo-bear wrote: post #48
Tade0 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a whole field of study, named Kremlinology, dedicated to deciphering what was it that the people there actually meant by saying this and that. I used to think that I had some additional insight, hailing from a country neighbouring Russia, but it takes being born on former soviet territory to fully understand their line of thinking. It's not that it's particularly sophisticated - just utterly foreign to anyone…

[flagged]

Maybe we could have avoided it. Maybe not.

It's wishful thinking to say "All we had to do was give them what they wanted." I'll skip the tired historical comparison, but just point out that we can't know the counterfactual.

I certainly do not deny American entitlement and exceptionalism, and I think it's a massive mistake on our part. But nobody in the US (or Europe) has any designs on Russian territory. Our mistake as about how we treat our friends, not our enemies.

The Ukraine war was put NATO even more on Russia's borders, and Putin has been NATO's greatest salesman. It's hard to foresee an outcome that doesn't end with Ukraine (in whatever territory it can keep) joining NATO.

America definitely needs to fix its attitude. But Russia appears intent on completely misunderstanding us, and doing so in ways that get its ass kicked. That's not good for anybody, but Russia least of all.

Re: Russia Claims Breakthrough With ATACMS

#64

Post by addicted »

speeder wrote: post #50
addicted wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Article claims that ATACMS have been highly effective, but all 5 missiles launched at Crimea recently were shot down. Which is not at all in contradiction. The ATACMS could have been highly successful but not any longer. In fact, this would be exactly what you would expect if the claims in the article are true. > As usual, everything is completely unclear in this stalemate war where both sides regularly claim overw…

People bashing Russia military but asking why Russia is attacking Ukraine are not figuring out that is exactly the reason for the war. Ukraine border is too close to Moscow, it is easy to go from Ukraine to Moscow and Russia know they would fail to defend themselves from a NATO land invasion from there. Thus why they are willing to pay a very high price to ensure this won't happen.

Putin thought he would control Kyiv in 2 weeks and that gambit failed miserably and if he were to leave Ukraine now he would look extremely weak and likely get overthrown and/or executed.

That’s why the war continues.

If it had anything to do with NATO, but maybe you didn’t notice that as a direct result of this war 2 nations with borders with Russia have joined NATO and those 2 nations are significantly more useful members for NATO with a highly advanced defense industry in the case of Sweden, and a history of kicking Russian ass against significant odds in the case of Finland.

And even the nonsense of NATO entering Russia is ridiculous. NATO is made of functioning countries that want to basically just do trade. The last thing they want is a war with a nuclear power. Heck, 2.5 years into a very clear war of aggression by Russia where there is no uncertainty about Russia’s moral guilt and the illegalness of its invasion as well as the legality of Ukraine’s defense of itself, NATO has just given Ukraine the permission to strike on Russian soil but even then in a highly limited area and only indisputably military targets.

All the evidence for decades, including, for example, efforts by the U.S. to increase free trade with Russia, the Brits inviting Russian oligarchs to buy up their key football clubs and all the land in London, and Germany deliberately making itself dependent on Russian gas, has shown that NATO countries want Russia to be a partner in the community of nations and have absolutely no interest in Russia’s largely worthless land.

Re: Russia Claims Breakthrough With ATACMS

#65

Post by squidbeak »

klrtla wrote: post #31

Article claims that ATACMS have been highly effective, but all 5 missiles launched at Crimea recently were shot down. As usual, everything is completely unclear in this stalemate war where both sides regularly claim overwhelming successes yet nothing has changed for 2 years.

"Nothing has changed in 2 years."

2 years ago, Russia was in full control of the Black Sea. Russia's IFV, tank and artillery storage depots were still well-stocked with vehicles. It was still able to fly A50 spy planes over the Sea of Azov and Black sea. Ukraine had no practical means of waging a campaign against Russian oil refineries, it had HIMARS, but no western tanks, Bradley IFVs, Patriot, Samp-T and NASAMs batteries, no Storm Shadow/Scalp missiles, no prospect of western jets and their weapons systems.

For balance, Ukraine still had its power stations, tens of thousands of its soldiers were still alive. Bakhmut and Avdiivka hadn't been razed, Vuhledar hadn't been shattered, and it had yet to spend part of its force on an poorly-judged counter-offensive.

No matter how deadlocked it might seem today, a position isn't a stalemate when so much around either side's ability to wage war is in flux.

Re: Russia Claims Breakthrough With ATACMS

#66

Post by justin66 »

themgt wrote: post #39
jncfhnb wrote: post #2

Dang they’re only 30 years behind us now.

The US Army announced that the first PrSM batch has been delivered in December 2023. Operational testing is expected in 2024, with low-rate initial production, full-rate production, and initial capability testing expected in 2025, according to the Government Accountability Office’s 2023 Weapons Systems Annual Assessment. A total of 110 PrSMs are expected to be procured in fiscal 2024 and 190 in fiscal 2025 It's fairl…

If they breathlessly announced they were dismantling one of our howitzers, we'd joke about them being 60 years behind. It doesn't mean those howitzers aren't useful weapons, but...

Re: Russia Claims Breakthrough With ATACMS

#67

Post by addicted »

speeder wrote: post #50
addicted wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Article claims that ATACMS have been highly effective, but all 5 missiles launched at Crimea recently were shot down. Which is not at all in contradiction. The ATACMS could have been highly successful but not any longer. In fact, this would be exactly what you would expect if the claims in the article are true. > As usual, everything is completely unclear in this stalemate war where both sides regularly claim overw…

People bashing Russia military but asking why Russia is attacking Ukraine are not figuring out that is exactly the reason for the war. Ukraine border is too close to Moscow, it is easy to go from Ukraine to Moscow and Russia know they would fail to defend themselves from a NATO land invasion from there. Thus why they are willing to pay a very high price to ensure this won't happen.

The only ones bashing the Russian military are the Russian leaders who’ve been exposing the fact that the mighty Russian military isn’t even capable of taking down a military staffed nearly entirely by civilians and using discards from the Cold War which they are learning how to use in the middle of the war.

The Russian military is an absolute embarrassment, and to the extent the Russian leadership and further, the Russian people, continue to allow this illegal war of aggression to continue under their names, it’s an embarrassment to them as well.

When your rallying cry is “we have a history of enduring fighting bitter battles with massive loss of life to gain little to no useful territory” to justify continuing this war where you’re losing badly and embarrassing yourself on the world stage with a begging bowl aimed at North Korea, you’ve shown yourself to not be a serious nation in the 21st century.

Re: Russia Claims Breakthrough With ATACMS

#68

Post by mola »

medo-bear wrote: post #48
Tade0 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a whole field of study, named Kremlinology, dedicated to deciphering what was it that the people there actually meant by saying this and that. I used to think that I had some additional insight, hailing from a country neighbouring Russia, but it takes being born on former soviet territory to fully understand their line of thinking. It's not that it's particularly sophisticated - just utterly foreign to anyone…

[flagged]

Avoided by them taking Ukrain and all other eatern bloc countries without a war,just with corrupt politicians and some well timed assisanation.

Kremlin never hides it's imperialism. Maybe just listen to that?

Re: Russia Claims Breakthrough With ATACMS

#69

Post by squidbeak »

justin66 wrote: post #58
klrtla wrote: post #31

Article claims that ATACMS have been highly effective, but all 5 missiles launched at Crimea recently were shot down. As usual, everything is completely unclear in this stalemate war where both sides regularly claim overwhelming successes yet nothing has changed for 2 years.

> all 5 missiles launched at Crimea recently were shot down So Russia finally managed to chalk up a few wins? They were losing S-300 and S-400 sites at an alarming rate... to ATACMS. That's moderately ridiculous, since S-400 is supposed to be state of the art Russian military export technology.

Its worth noting this was a daylight attack. Russia doesn't seem to have been able to take down the ATACMS missiles that struck the Vitino Center for Long-Range Space Communications complex later that night.

Re: Russia Claims Breakthrough With ATACMS

#70

Post by themgt »

jncfhnb wrote: post #53
themgt wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US Army announced that the first PrSM batch has been delivered in December 2023. Operational testing is expected in 2024, with low-rate initial production, full-rate production, and initial capability testing expected in 2025, according to the Government Accountability Office’s 2023 Weapons Systems Annual Assessment. A total of 110 PrSMs are expected to be procured in fiscal 2024 and 190 in fiscal 2025 It's fairl…

It’s really quite reasonable. The basic capabilities of the ATACMS are not hugely changed and have been available for decades. Russia does not have an equivalent that is demonstrably deployed effectively. They’re also not the focal point of US military development. The quality of Russian equipment being deployed right now is really bad. The limiting factor here is not “science”. Fun bonus if you want to watch some pe…

Russia does not have an equivalent that is demonstrably deployed effectively.

Ukraine is being hit with Iskander-M all the time, e.g. just days ago at Myrhorod taking out SU-27s.

The quality of Russian equipment being deployed right now is really bad.

And yet Ukraine is still losing territory, countless men, and the war. This blasé attitude is just bizarre, as if NATO has a secret stock of wunderwaffen about to be arrive and deliver the coup de grâce any day. NATO has spent a quarter trillion dollars+ on this proxy war, staked its credibility on it, and is losing.

Fun bonus if you want to watch some people die:

Things people who have lost their humanity say.

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