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My experiences at a woman's programming workshop

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Re: My experiences at a woman's programming workshop

#11
That's not a call for single-sex education. That's a call for good teachers who are willing to crack down on the class clown. There's always a class clown, and he always needs to be cracked down upon for the good of the class. This is teaching 101. Sorry you didn't have a good teacher.

>Dave was really excited by the class, and, like me and the other volunteers, had a lot of experience with Python.

Sounds like Dave was in the wrong class and should have been told so.

>I wondered afterwards why this extremely competent woman in her 20s would react this way after clearly mastering the material.

That's a learned technique for getting assistance. It worked on you, didn't it?

Re: My experiences at a woman's programming workshop

#13

I have no idea to solve the helpful jerk problem but I can think of possible solutions. - If a "Helpful jerk" was at a class at a school they would be asked to leave by the teacher. This would be the final response. If they are being that disruptive then the time it takes for you to ask them to leave would salvage the course. - Assign skill levels to tables. Possibly make a leader with the highest skills. (Bitboxer h…

Just ask the jerk to stop asking questions and making remarks. You're trying to teach a class and that involves input and interaction of all students, not just the one. As a teacher you are responsible for the learning climate in the room and you can act accordingly.

If the jerk doesn't like that, (s)he can leave.

Re: My experiences at a woman's programming workshop

#14
That's why we do not see more women involved with software, and I am not talking about Dave.

I am talking about both, the writer and Dave.

Why do you think most women stick to managing projects instead of being involved in Free Software?

Too much drama. Too much shit to cope with, that involves dicks and egos.

In the article we assume that Dave was a jerk (and it probably was). But, see, the author was in a comfortable position, when suddenly another man entered the room, and started to go alpha and everything turned into an ego battle.

Re: My experiences at a woman's programming workshop

#15

That's not a call for single-sex education. That's a call for good teachers who are willing to crack down on the class clown. There's always a class clown, and he always needs to be cracked down upon for the good of the class. This is teaching 101. Sorry you didn't have a good teacher. >Dave was really excited by the class, and, like me and the other volunteers, had a lot of experience with Python. Sounds like Dave w…

Great comment. Someone should've told Dave to leave. This is less of a matter of teaching than of administration.

Re: My experiences at a woman's programming workshop

#16
post #8
post #4

That bully is a reason why on railsgirls events you have tables for differen skill levels. You could easily send that guy to another table with more advanced people without throwing him out.

This. This is a wonderful idea. (In fact, in my evil little mind, I might be tempted to send a Dave to a table just a bit above him, to show him that he's only hot shit in his own mind.)

That's not evil. That's exactly how I would want to be treated in a class. I don't want to learn from people who know less than me, I want to learn from people who know more than me!

Re: My experiences at a woman's programming workshop

#17
The part of the post that intrigued me was when she...

"[Looked] at her screen, she’d made significant progress towards finishing the project, but when she asked me a question she giggled and told me she had no idea what the project was about, or what to do.

Why?

I still don’t know the reason. Studies have shown that especially bright women have this reaction to difficult material and that women learning computer science do better in an single sex classroom (though those studies have critics)."

On a similar Hacker News post, "In Math You Have to Remember, In Other Subjects You Can Think About It" the author paraphrases from a book "What's Math Got To Do With It?", in which he states that a student

"... called Rebecca, was conscientious, motivated, and smart, and regularly attained A+ grades in mathematics. She was able to follow the methods her teacher demonstrated in class, and could reproduce them perfectly. But she did not understand what she was doing, and as a result she regarded herself as not good at math. When Boaler asked her why she thought that, she replied, "Because I can't remember things well and there is so much to remember." [p.164.]"

Coincidentally both subjects are female but I think it's part of an underlying theme on learning and developing critical thinking skills that is playing out across this country. And the consequences of this lack/challenge differs on how one is taught.

Re: My experiences at a woman's programming workshop

#18

That's not a call for single-sex education. That's a call for good teachers who are willing to crack down on the class clown. There's always a class clown, and he always needs to be cracked down upon for the good of the class. This is teaching 101. Sorry you didn't have a good teacher. >Dave was really excited by the class, and, like me and the other volunteers, had a lot of experience with Python. Sounds like Dave w…

> That's a learned technique for getting assistance. It worked on you, didn't it?

I was going to point out the same thing. A women playing dumb to get help from a man, is not uncommon at all.

Re: My experiences at a woman's programming workshop

#19
post #10
post #6

> I saw Dave’s behavior as a challenge, a call to action. And it was at that moment that the gender difference became most apparent to me. Oh, for fuck's sake, how is some Dave being jerk is making gender difference apparent? The guy was at the wrong place, and was being a show-off. But no, you must attribute it to his gender. As pointed out by threads below, the author was talking about how the room tuned out when D…

>Oh, for fuck's sake, how is some Dave being jerk is making gender difference apparent? >The guy was at the wrong place, and was being a show-off. >But no, you must attribute it to his gender. If you read the article again, you may find that the gender difference which became apparent to the author has to do with the /response/ to Dave's behaviour, and not with his behaviour /per se/. Also, here is a (perhaps interes…

Yes, it has to do with the response, but I can't agree with the main point of it which is due to selection bias I think (not gender differences):

  To me, and I suspect most men, we’d see Dave’s behavior 
  as a call to arms. Dave was raising the stakes and even 
  though his behavior was clearly rude, it also demonstrated 
  that he had a mastery over the material.
If this is the core of the article's point, I don't agree with it. People such as "Dave" waste everyone's time, it doesn't really matter what gender Dave and his audience are. When I encounter a Dave, I don't see it as a pointless "call to arms", I tune out and ultimately leave. I'm not wasting my time fighting people like Dave. I don't like how the article implies this makes me less of a man. It's simply good sense in my opinion not to waste your energy on trolls.

If there are groups where everyone feels challenged and is in a fighting mood after seeing Dave in action, it's probably because everyone else already left the room or had the sense not to come to the event in the first place.

Re: My experiences at a woman's programming workshop

#20

That's not a call for single-sex education. That's a call for good teachers who are willing to crack down on the class clown. There's always a class clown, and he always needs to be cracked down upon for the good of the class. This is teaching 101. Sorry you didn't have a good teacher. >Dave was really excited by the class, and, like me and the other volunteers, had a lot of experience with Python. Sounds like Dave w…

"That's a call for good teachers who are willing to crack down on the class clown. There's always a class clown, and he always needs to be cracked down upon for the good of the class. This is teaching 101. Sorry you didn't have a good teacher."

Most of the people who lecture at these events are programmers, not folks who have a masters in teaching along with their state certification.

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