My experiences at a woman's programming workshop

#1

Post by Swizec » Sat, Jun 09, 2012, 10:42 AM UTC

My experiences at a woman's programming workshop
blog.emacsen.net

Re: My experiences at a woman's programming workshop

#2

Post by derleth » Sat, Jun 09, 2012, 12:34 PM UTC

Very interesting story. I wonder if it would have been as effective without the male villain. The trope reinforces the moral, but it kind of beats us over the head with it.

Re: My experiences at a woman's programming workshop

#3

Post by danso » Sat, Jun 09, 2012, 12:51 PM UTC

I'm going to be the one who says, "Hey, Ive had classes where the 'Dave' jerk was a woman"...but that isn't necessarily a rebuttal to the OP's point about single sex classrooms. It's possible that the dynamic of the gender mix causes certain jerks to show off more, male or female.

But as soon as I say that, I can definitely think of plenty of oxygen-hogs in my all male engineering classes

Re: My experiences at a woman's programming workshop

#4

Post by bitboxer » Sat, Jun 09, 2012, 12:54 PM UTC

That bully is a reason why on railsgirls events you have tables for differen skill levels. You could easily send that guy to another table with more advanced people without throwing him out.

Re: My experiences at a woman's programming workshop

#5

Post by zitterbewegung » Sat, Jun 09, 2012, 1:01 PM UTC

I have no idea to solve the helpful jerk problem but I can think of possible solutions. - If a "Helpful jerk" was at a class at a school they would be asked to leave by the teacher. This would be the final response. If they are being that disruptive then the time it takes for you to ask them to leave would salvage the course.

- Assign skill levels to tables. Possibly make a leader with the highest skills. (Bitboxer had this solution). If your skill level is too high then whats the point of going?

- Ask the "Helpful jerk" to lead the class. Allow them to aid you in the course.

We can't actually solve the jerk problem but there are contingency strategies to minimize this problem. Free software should mean we have standards of conduct.

[Edited due to comment below]

Re: My experiences at a woman's programming workshop

#6

Post by irahul » Sat, Jun 09, 2012, 1:07 PM UTC

> I saw Dave’s behavior as a challenge, a call to action. And it was at that moment that the gender difference became most apparent to me.

Oh, for fuck's sake, how is some Dave being jerk is making gender difference apparent? The guy was at the wrong place, and was being a show-off. But no, you must attribute it to his gender.

As pointed out by threads below, the author was talking about how the room tuned out when Dave started derailing conversation, and he saw it as call to arms. The author sees this as apparent gender difference - FWIW I don't agree with his assessment. As long as we are talking anecdotes, I couldn't see a clear patterns(based on gender or any other trait) in the reactions of the people I know to this scenario.

I am leaving my incorrect comment as there are replies, and the replies will become meaningless if I remove it.

> Looking at her screen, she’d made significant progress towards finishing the project, but when she asked me a question she giggled and told me she had no idea what the project was about, or what to do.

> Studies have shown that especially bright women have this reaction to difficult material and that women learning computer science do better in an single sex classroom (though those studies have critics).

I think you are better off not basing off your approach on some controversial study. If you are compartmentalizing, no two students are same. And if you are generalizing, I find it hard to believe that 3291805000 females of the world show the same behavioral and learning traits. Unless you have proved it otherwise, I would stick to a feedback based approach where I see how students are coping up, and then introduce variations.

Re: My experiences at a woman's programming workshop

#7

Post by KaoruAoiShiho » Sat, Jun 09, 2012, 1:09 PM UTC

I used to be like Dave. Then I turned 13. Empathy is a great thing.

Re: My experiences at a woman's programming workshop

#8

Post by derleth » Sat, Jun 09, 2012, 1:15 PM UTC

bitboxer wrote: post #4

That bully is a reason why on railsgirls events you have tables for differen skill levels. You could easily send that guy to another table with more advanced people without throwing him out.

This. This is a wonderful idea.

(In fact, in my evil little mind, I might be tempted to send a Dave to a table just a bit above him, to show him that he's only hot shit in his own mind.)

Re: My experiences at a woman's programming workshop

#9

Post by yummyfajitas » Sat, Jun 09, 2012, 1:18 PM UTC

This article begs the question: why do women respond disproportionately badly to the "helpful jerk"?

Re: My experiences at a woman's programming workshop

#10

Post by gphilip » Sat, Jun 09, 2012, 1:18 PM UTC

irahul wrote: post #6

> I saw Dave’s behavior as a challenge, a call to action. And it was at that moment that the gender difference became most apparent to me. Oh, for fuck's sake, how is some Dave being jerk is making gender difference apparent? The guy was at the wrong place, and was being a show-off. But no, you must attribute it to his gender. As pointed out by threads below, the author was talking about how the room tuned out when D…

>Oh, for fuck's sake, how is some Dave being jerk is making gender difference apparent? >The guy was at the wrong place, and was being a show-off. >But no, you must attribute it to his gender.

If you read the article again, you may find that the gender difference which became apparent to the author has to do with the /response/ to Dave's behaviour, and not with his behaviour /per se/.

Also, here is a (perhaps interesting) thought experiment: Among the folks you know well enough, how many would care to respond to an opinion in a discussion forum which starts off with the words "Oh, for fuck's sake" ? How do the women fare in this count? Is there a gender difference?