The joy of reading books you don't understand • Hacker News Board

Re: The joy of reading books you don't understand

#201

Post by protomolecule » Thu, Jul 04, 2024, 7:25 PM UTC

Xfx7028 wrote: post #126

rvba wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oversimplification is bad, but there is a reason why Western/US universities are so much better at teaching students. Imagine your professors and textbooks werent there to teach you, but they were there to show off their knowledge or to prove you that you know nothing. A very known problem in my country is that a professor is not making a lecture to teach you something or to explain you something, the professor wants…

This sound ls very much like the experience of Greeks according to some friend.

While other countries use Greek letters for variables and functions)

Re: The joy of reading books you don't understand

#202

Post by protomolecule » Thu, Jul 04, 2024, 7:29 PM UTC

bheadmaster wrote: post #74

wozniacki wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was waiting the whole time I read this to find a /s somewhere. Anywhere. Yikes.

> Yikes. Proof? Citation? Jokes aside, I find that this sentence makes much sense, especially in the context of online forums such as HN or Reddit: In fact, only people with no better use for their time will spend their time teaching you. This means you're being taught only by people whose time is worthless or for whom it is useful for you to believe in something. Why do you think that is inaccurate?

Because some people want make the world a better place. Or simply enjoy sharing knowledge.

Re: The joy of reading books you don't understand

#203

Post by lanstin » Thu, Jul 04, 2024, 7:31 PM UTC

jasinjames wrote: post #196

the__alchemist wrote: post #155

I think there is a limit. If it's a topic you can look things up about (Maybe something technical where you haven't read the prerequisites.). The initial example from the article is interesting, in that you can learn so much about history with the looked-up context, but you can still follow and enjoy the books without it - you will just not know which characters and events were real! I think you will probably remembe…

For the divine comedy I can recommend the Robert Durling english translation. Each canto has a large section of notes which give all of that context and various interpretations in condensed form. Really excellent stuff.

The problem here is that hell is exciting and heaven is dull. I enjoyed the John Ciardi translation of hell a lot and purgatory in a sort of academic way and couldn't make progress thru heaven.

Re: The joy of reading books you don't understand

#204

Post by lanstin » Thu, Jul 04, 2024, 7:33 PM UTC

world2vec wrote: post #112

I'm halfway through Neal Stephenson’s "Baroque Cycle" and it's absolutely delightful but it sure requires frequent dictionary/Wikipedia consultation, at least for me.

This ability to look things up on the fly is why I love ereaders, despite the newproblem of finishing one book on my TBR list and having bought more than one book referred to in the first book. A divergent sequence of books I fear.

Re: The joy of reading books you don't understand

#205

Post by greentxt » Thu, Jul 04, 2024, 7:40 PM UTC

Strange to me so few comments, none based on my skimming mention either, 1) reading code, 2) shakespeare.

There's levels of reading. Sometimes you skim, sometimes close read. Sometimes you read to glean something about the author, sometimes for pure enjoyment. Different codebases have to be read in different ways. Shakespeare can be appreciated without "getting it" just enjoying the meter and an occasional bit of word play. You can see cool programming tricks without grokking the entire codebase.

Read, reread, get what you want or need. Come back later on if you find there's more value. There is no right way to do it.

Re: The joy of reading books you don't understand

#206

Post by lanstin » Thu, Jul 04, 2024, 7:42 PM UTC

banish-m4 wrote: post #94

If works do not test you or bring new ideas, then what is the point of reading them in the first place? Uncomfortable nonfiction is like eating your vegetables. There is much disquieting history and knowledge that must not be ignored. Mainstream mass public education will not teach curiosity or imbue anyone with ambition or initiative, it is something one must cultivate on their own.

Life isn't some contest where we only need challenges. Pleasure is a fine part of creation.

And I had some wonderful teachers in mass education who inspired me quite a bit on the virtue of curiosity and striving for what exceeds my grasp. I don't know what you mean by ambition but for me it has been trying to do each thing with focus as well as I can and to attempt to live a life of openness and love and hard but fulfilling work. The rewards of life accrete in the moments, not in the external rewards (I enjoy external rewards but they are definitely frosting not cake.)

Re: The joy of reading books you don't understand

#207

Post by lanstin » Thu, Jul 04, 2024, 7:44 PM UTC

robbiep wrote: post #9

When I was 11 I was attracted to the cover of a book that showed some boats sailing on a terraformed Mars. Reading Blue Mars, the final book in the series, at age 11 totally blew my mind. Not only was I already scientifically inclined, so Sax's explanations of the world and descriptions of materials science really expanded my 'scope of the possible' (even if a bunch of the high tech stuff was hand wavy), this book al…

I love that whole series but when I reread it now I am like where are all the Chinese and Indians in high tech science? Folks from Africa? It's a very California in the 1990s sort of multinational scene.

Re: The joy of reading books you don't understand

#208

Post by lanstin » Thu, Jul 04, 2024, 7:54 PM UTC

infinitezest wrote: post #121

lqet wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work in academia, and the pessimistic/cynic standpoint is that university is not about teaching, but about filtering. Making a lecture "fun", comprehensible, or even "innovative" may not have the desired effect of improving the level of understanding among all students, because a fun and easy course is a worse filter than a hard course. Personally I always learned the most in courses that were very hard and had a n…

If you're putting in all of the effort to make the material make sense to you, what is the role of the educator? If the way to learn things is to read a book a bunch of times, what value does my tuition money get me? A syllabus? The ability to ask questions of a possibly poor communicater?

Often the sequence of topics will be deeply significant once you are up to speed. Also for really hard work, knowing someone that knows the material is going to grade your homework is (at least for me) extremely motivating to do my best to master the material. Also office hours- periodically I get stuck trying to prove false things due to careless reading, and the professors are quite good at backing up and asking why I am trying to prove something they know to be false.

As with many human activities it is startlingly easy to fool oneself and so things involving a more experienced person can help. Grading, code reviews, peer review, certifications, etc.

Re: The joy of reading books you don't understand

#209

Post by mamonster » Thu, Jul 04, 2024, 7:57 PM UTC

sigriv wrote: post #175

whatnotests2 wrote: post #2

Hegel's Phenomenology of the Spirit, Marx's Capital, Foucault's work, von Neumann and Morgenstern' Game Theory, and the Perl 6 Apocalypses and Exegeses from the early 2000's.

Deleuze, Bourdieu, Malebranche, ... I find it incredibly satisfying to stretch my brain with books that are inaccessible on the first read.

Deleuze is so overrated(although I am personally biased against everything that came out and was concurrent with Mai 68 in general). I don't know if you read it in French, but in French the only "French Theorist" worse than Deleuze/Guattari is Baudrillar(for how bad the concepts are).

IMO the most interesting one from that era is Clouscard.

Re: The joy of reading books you don't understand

#210

Post by lanstin » Thu, Jul 04, 2024, 8:00 PM UTC

wavemode wrote: post #172

infinitezest wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're putting in all of the effort to make the material make sense to you, what is the role of the educator? If the way to learn things is to read a book a bunch of times, what value does my tuition money get me? A syllabus? The ability to ask questions of a possibly poor communicater?

> If the way to learn things is to read a book a bunch of times, what value does my tuition money get me? The real answer? You gained a piece of paper which certifies that you are educated in a field. Depending on the school you may also gain access to an insular professional network. That's pretty much it. The notion that university degrees are worth anything more than that is moderately outdated.

I am in my fifties, a software engineer, and I am enrolled in a masters program for mathematics and really learning at a ferocious rate compared to my job, where I can alternate learning with using what I've learned.

For me, learning a lot is very worthwhile. Not everyone shares that goal for education of course.