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The joy of reading books you don't understand

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Re: The joy of reading books you don't understand

#71

Post by hju22_-3 »

wozniacki wrote: post #57
renewiltord wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll see this often on the Internet: proof? Proof? Citation? Boy, no one's going to do any work for you. If you believe the wrong thing, the consequences are your own. In fact, only people with no better use for their time will spend their time teaching you. This means you're being taught only by people whose time is worthless or for whom it is useful for you to believe in something. If you're not paying for the kn…

I was waiting the whole time I read this to find a /s somewhere. Anywhere. Yikes.

I will agree that it is big yikes. But I will, at least kind of, agree that you are more likely to meet more arm chair scientists than you are scientists and actual field experts online in this fashion. Though, obviously, there are actual scientists and field experts around. The issue, as always, is how to differenciate them from the not-so-obviously fake ones as a layman.

But yes. Still big yikes.

Re: The joy of reading books you don't understand

#72

Post by MikeBVaughn »

wozniacki wrote: post #42

I'm dismayed that no one so far has brought up a point that's begging to be made in these sorts of things. While the point of the article has _some_ merit, there's also another equally valid contrary argument to be made. Just because a book - however storied & fabled - exists out there, does not mean that you should strive to find some meaning, import or significant cogitable thought when one is not clearly and immed…

> Sometimes the authors themselves invite and regale in this kind of festive chicanery. Sometimes not. But this sort of thing - far more than useful or warranted - does exist.

Why does art and the attempts at interpretation thereof have to be useful or warranted? Festive chicanery sounds delightful to me. I would like more of that in my life, please.

> In other words some works of writing often fiction but not necessarily are just elaborate exercises in getting away with balderdash.

> In other words far too many mediocre works of the past still get top billing, than they rightly deserve largely because no one called out their bullshit.

> HN should buck this trend and not join in adulation.

Do you have some concrete examples of works that fit these claims?

Re: The joy of reading books you don't understand

#73

Post by surfingdino »

spacephysics wrote: post #54
sfink wrote: post #53

This reminds me of something that I heard once from a Chinese teacher. I can't vouch for the accuracy of it, but he was definitely on to something : In the West, it is assumed that it is the speaker's job to make himself understood to his listeners. In the East, it is the other way around. In recent times, it seems like we've gotten even more extreme. The speaker or writer must not only spoon-feed the understanding,…

I find a similar trend with education in general. Some states have phased out programs for gifted students. Instead, many of them aren’t stimulated enough and end up going down a troubling path (worst case) or they don’t really reach their full potential during those formidable years. Teachers are expected to make the content match the lowest denominator, outside of the occasional exceptional teacher

Because making someone think is stupid-shaming and therefore not politically correct.

Re: The joy of reading books you don't understand

#74

Post by bheadmaster »

wozniacki wrote: post #57
renewiltord wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll see this often on the Internet: proof? Proof? Citation? Boy, no one's going to do any work for you. If you believe the wrong thing, the consequences are your own. In fact, only people with no better use for their time will spend their time teaching you. This means you're being taught only by people whose time is worthless or for whom it is useful for you to believe in something. If you're not paying for the kn…

I was waiting the whole time I read this to find a /s somewhere. Anywhere. Yikes.

> Yikes.

Proof? Citation?

Jokes aside, I find that this sentence makes much sense, especially in the context of online forums such as HN or Reddit:

    In fact, only people with no better use for their time will spend their time teaching you. This means you're being taught only by people whose time is worthless or for whom it is useful for you to believe in something.
Why do you think that is inaccurate?

Re: The joy of reading books you don't understand

#75

Post by forgotusername6 »

lukan wrote: post #64
btilly wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is because the USA is low context while China is high context. For more about this and related topics, read https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00IHGVQ9I/ref=tmm_kin_swatch... .

"Americans precede anything negative with three nice comments; French, Dutch, Israelis, and Germans get straight to the point; Latin Americans and Asians are steeped in hierarchy; Scandinavians think the best boss is just one of the crowd. It's no surprise that when they try and talk to each other, chaos breaks out." Oh, it is a book about stereotypes. Well, as a german it seems I have to get straight to the point, I…

Did you read the beginning of the book or just read that one quote? The first chapter on a story about meeting etiquette in Chinese business culture is actually quite insightful. It certainly resonates with me a least. I wish I had a manual so I knew how to behave in a meeting with people from different cultures. We are not all the same and there is no one size fits all way of behaving in a meeting.

Re: The joy of reading books you don't understand

#77

Post by malux85 »

djmips wrote: post #59
malux85 wrote: post #16

When I was about 14 years old, my parents saw my interest in electronics and computers and went to a university professor they knew and purchased 6-7 books on various topics. (Mostly electrical engineering and some programming) They were designed for 2nd or 3rd year university students, and they were way wayyyy beyond me, but I used to read them, over and over, and slowly parts of them were becoming clearer to me, ev…

Same but for computers. As a child I got the engineering books for the 6502 from my father ( he was a power engineer).and they were like a foreign language. But I persisted and read them over and over like I was trying to decode an ancient cipher. And like you, eventually they became clearer and my understanding flourished. Such a cool experience.

I fondly remember seeing the integral symbol and having no idea what it meant, and no internet to check. I remember thinking to myself “This must be important if it’s in this book” and just memorising without understanding. I still write x^(p/q)==q//(x^p) as my goto graffiti!

Re: The joy of reading books you don't understand

#78

Post by tommiegannert »

lukan wrote: post #64
btilly wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is because the USA is low context while China is high context. For more about this and related topics, read https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00IHGVQ9I/ref=tmm_kin_swatch... .

"Americans precede anything negative with three nice comments; French, Dutch, Israelis, and Germans get straight to the point; Latin Americans and Asians are steeped in hierarchy; Scandinavians think the best boss is just one of the crowd. It's no surprise that when they try and talk to each other, chaos breaks out." Oh, it is a book about stereotypes. Well, as a german it seems I have to get straight to the point, I…

> Well, as a german it seems I have to get straight to the point

"The Joy of Reading Books You Don't Understand"

It seems you didn't even try to understand The Culture Map, and opted for a strawman.

> I do not think, thinking in stereotypes this broad is helpful for communicating.

You're trying to use it as a cookbook. If you instead see it as a dictionary to be used when someone you're interacting with isn't behaving the way you had expected, it will make more sense. We can still be unique flowers with a wide variance, even if cultural regions have shifted medians.

Re: The joy of reading books you don't understand

#79

Post by monero-xmr »

surfingdino wrote: post #73
spacephysics wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find a similar trend with education in general. Some states have phased out programs for gifted students. Instead, many of them aren’t stimulated enough and end up going down a troubling path (worst case) or they don’t really reach their full potential during those formidable years. Teachers are expected to make the content match the lowest denominator, outside of the occasional exceptional teacher

Because making someone think is stupid-shaming and therefore not politically correct.

Eventually everyone is tested. I have received perfect looking resumes and cover letters, then you get the person on a call and they are… hopeless. It’s very sad. Who pushed them so far? How did they get the credentials? Who wrote and edited their materials?

Eventually the “rubber meets the road” so to speak, and all of the lies and gold stars and platitudes don’t count for anything.

Re: The joy of reading books you don't understand

#80

Post by lukan »

forgotusername6 wrote: post #75
lukan wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Americans precede anything negative with three nice comments; French, Dutch, Israelis, and Germans get straight to the point; Latin Americans and Asians are steeped in hierarchy; Scandinavians think the best boss is just one of the crowd. It's no surprise that when they try and talk to each other, chaos breaks out." Oh, it is a book about stereotypes. Well, as a german it seems I have to get straight to the point, I…

Did you read the beginning of the book or just read that one quote? The first chapter on a story about meeting etiquette in Chinese business culture is actually quite insightful. It certainly resonates with me a least. I wish I had a manual so I knew how to behave in a meeting with people from different cultures. We are not all the same and there is no one size fits all way of behaving in a meeting.

I stopped at that quote.

There are no doubt interesting anecdota inside, that might be insightful and there is no doubt some truth to some clichés, but I seriously doubt a box so big as "asians" has much value.

And even for "small" boxes like "germans", there are for example great differences between east and west germany (seperated by the iron curtain and different systems for over 40 years) - but more so for the older and less for the younger generation. Etc.

So reading in general about cultural differences when meeting someone from that culture can be surely be helpful - but in my experience it is not useful for taking such advice by the letter.

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