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The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

kitze.io

241–250 of 316 posts

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#241

Author here! I need to update this article. Years later, I actually got motivated by the comments on HN (whenever this gets posted). P People are always like "why don't you just ship your app?" ... so I did! I'm happy I went through with and it's way WAY better than any competitor in this category Check it out at https://benji.so (landing page is still w.i.p)

I went through an unshipped app dev cycle that was fairly similar in many ways. Started on React, then RN, then Flutter, and eventually migrated away from graphql into sqlite.

My app had some similar aspirations -- to bridge the gap between habit motivation, goal adherence measurement, task scheduling & rescheduling. I worked on it for a few years, and my identity was very much wrapped up in eventually bootstrapping a company.

For me, the decision to let go of the project came in multiple phases, but one big closer was that I simply didn't want to be an app dev in the long run. While difficult to let go of, I currently feel good about the decision. Also, as evidenced by the resurrection part of the story, "nothing is ever fully lost" anyhow, though I doubt I'll ever return to this particular project.

One key idea I had for expanding beyond the "high cognitive load" nature of most productivity apps was to implement a "life module" marketplace of sorts that would let, say, a fitness influencer sell a workout routine + meal plan + journal template one could "install" into their life.

LLMs will also make detecting fall-off and attempting to attribute causes, or respond to "non-actions" much more feasible, which I think is important for anyone not type-A enough to use a productivity app consistently every day on their own.

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#243
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No. Your job is to do what the company pays you for. The company is not paying you to create great software. It's paying you to solve some kind of business problem or provide some kind of business service. The company pays me because of my knowledge and expertise, that is needed to create and maintain the porduct as best as possible. If I am just a yes man, the company isn't getting what they paid for. If I honestl…

> The company pays me because of my knowledge and expertise, that is needed to create and maintain the porduct as best as possible. Yes, but that does not always mean writing great software. Sometimes it means writing mediocre software because that's all that's needed. Sometimes it might mean writing no software at all because software isn't the best way to solve a particular problem. You recognize this because you s…

> But "write great software" implies that there is no such spectrum--everything you do is always at the extreme high end. You are agreeing with me that that's not the case.

Yes I guess I just read the parent comment more charitably. Like always push for maximizing the quality as that's your job and your expertise. And sometimes when quality really matters you have to stick your neck out and push back aggressively, even if it will cost the company more than expected. That's what we learn in engineering ethics courses in school after all.

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if it’s smart to do that if you aren’t entirely sure about what mental state a person could be in. Edit: okay I don’t know why I’m getting downvoted for this but if you think you can just tell someone you’re going to steal their awesome idea in 6 months you better hope their not the type of “crazy” entrepreneur who will cause problems for you or in extreme cases even end up shooting you in the back of the he…

> okay I don’t know why I’m getting downvoted Because saying "don't do something because an irrational player might irrationally punish you for that" isn't particularly insightful. To expand on your argument, I could find out your real identity (this is hacker news, so I might be a hacker) and pay you a visit (I won't, I'm too lazy & incompetent for that). Just saying that your argument doesn't make sense to me. > yo…

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Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's worth repeating: Unless you have a stake in the company, it is NOT your job to make sure the company is the most profitable it can be. Your job is to create great software This is a terrible take, and one I generally see as a signal of lack of seniority in a software dev. It is absolutely everybody's job in the company to make sure it is profitable, unless you work for a non-profit. The thing is though, that p…

> absolutely everybody's job in the company to make sure it is profitable Absolutely and categorically it is not. That is complete nonsense. Why should an employee care? Unless there's some profit sharing scheme in place that would benefit the said employee and they took advantage of that scheme. And even then, employees typically (and I'd even say in the vast majority of cases) have very few and tiny levers to pull…

The OP's scenario has a product manager telling you that what they need is for you to finish feature X quickly so the company can be profitable.

In a well-working organization, that absolutely means that you, as an engineer should look into how to do X with the least amount of effort, hush things up, and ship it. The PM is the one that has to decide into hushing or not things, you are the one to decide how.

The problem is, every single organization where the PM insists on you to hush isn't well-working. It's easier to win the lottery than it's to find exceptions here. On those problematic organizations the PM will use your results to improve their curriculum and will absolutely throw you under the bus when the hushed product behaves like a hushed product. And everybody will be happy with kicking you down.

Also, if the product has any kind of safety impact, it's not the PM's job to decide about it anymore. It's yours.

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience working in this industry is very different and devs do get recognition and sometimes bonuses (if certain goals are hit). Devs are paid a premium, have generally much more relaxed work schedules than managers or any customer facing role. If you screw over your health working in a toxic environment that’s on you IMO - as tech worker you probably have more opportunities to improve your working conditions t…

I have never known a software developer who got a bonus. Rarely even recognition.

I worked with a guy who got a sizable bonus (rumored $200k). The reason? An old college buddy called and asked if our technology could help their social media company with a problem they had.

So, if you want a bonus as a software developer, be a sales rep by happenstance. Probably helps if you went to a prestigious university where you met people who went on to prestigious roles...

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#247
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've realized I can't "just ship" a product that relies on a hand-rolled user-authorization scheme that I create with very little experience. Time to ship and get the experience :) It is probably not that bad as you think it is. You can also ask others if they see any obvious security/cryptography fails and you would do better than most including big companies... > So now I've interrupted my whole project to learn…

Thanks for the advice! I did run a somewhat similar app with essentially no API security on a cheap-ass Linode VPS around 2011. But we only had 10-20K users and those extremely sporadic. But, although users controlled their content, it was totally anonymous. I didn't require a single credential, not even an E-mail address. One thing about Supabase is that it's supposed to offer user verification through E-mail out of…

Depends on the application. I tend to have a single binary, you just need a language runtime and/or database, rarely some other software. You can script installation of this. I don't see how the containers add a value when you can do the same directly.

The last time I've tried Docker to run some application it tried to overtake my testing VM and it failed miserably. Apparently it is not compatible with chroot and it doesn't check for it so it fails somewhere in the middle with various processes and stuff left behind. Doesn't give me a good impression of such software, it lacks both an awareness of a standard feature and an inability to handle failed states gracefully.

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#248

There's massive caveat with all of these "and then the story ends because we didn't just ship it :(" stories: sometimes the value of the "app" you're working on is in the technical details that cannot really be "hastened" and you can't "just ship it". Also, and this is something a lot of the managerial class people don't want to hear: Your job as a sw engineer/architect is to resist the "just ship it" pressure from t…

> It's worth repeating: Unless you have a stake in the company, it is NOT your job to make sure the company is the most profitable it can be. Your job is to create great software This is a terrible take, and one I generally see as a signal of lack of seniority in a software dev. It is absolutely everybody's job in the company to make sure it is profitable, unless you work for a non-profit. The thing is though, that p…

Many great products have terrible software behind them.

Please give some examples of great products created by software developers that have terrible software behind them.

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which part of his comment was satire exactly? He mentioned that your job as Software Engineer is to focus on Software quality and push against on unreasonable deadlines. It is NOT your job to make sure the company is hitting its sales targets, that's the management's job. If you think this is satire, you are in the wrong profession and frankly I'm amazed that on a website called Hacker news, people are attacking pare…

it's just written in such an over the top, office-space, Dilbert-esque, somebody's-got-a-case-of-the-Mondays style that it's hard to take seriously. Yeah, don't write absolute trash code, but also don't spend three years architecting the most beautiful, most modular code and run out of money before you ship; you ain't gonna need it. If you're programming from a place that's so far removed from customers that you don'…

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Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#250

There's massive caveat with all of these "and then the story ends because we didn't just ship it :(" stories: sometimes the value of the "app" you're working on is in the technical details that cannot really be "hastened" and you can't "just ship it". Also, and this is something a lot of the managerial class people don't want to hear: Your job as a sw engineer/architect is to resist the "just ship it" pressure from t…

if more time makes your work more professional, then take more time. Anyone telling you otherwise is a 100% hack.

It sounds like you're a fan of Total Quality Control, as am I. However, it also sounds like you're susceptible to feature drift and undermining yourself with ideas thought up late in the development cycle, as am I.

I've seen it from both sides. Software people who want to get just one more feature in, or who want to hold up release to fix an inconsequential bug. Similarly, the CEO who ruminates all weekend and decides we have to revamp something for no objective reason and on a ridiculous deadline.

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