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The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

kitze.io

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Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#221

Post by OvbiousError »

portaouflop wrote: post #107
fabioborellini wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is a terrible take, and one I generally see as a signal of lack of seniority in a software dev. It is absolutely everybody's job in the company to make sure it is profitable, unless you work for a non-profit. Developers aren't compensated for any extraordinary achievement, though. Unless they own a notable share of the company. So, why should they give everything and get nothing back? How is that fair? Salespe…

My experience working in this industry is very different and devs do get recognition and sometimes bonuses (if certain goals are hit). Devs are paid a premium, have generally much more relaxed work schedules than managers or any customer facing role. If you screw over your health working in a toxic environment that’s on you IMO - as tech worker you probably have more opportunities to improve your working conditions t…

Maybe this is a US vs Europe thing? I'm in the latter region, where I am there's a ceiling for dev salaries, virtually the only way to break through is to become a manager. It's also very uncommon to share the companies success.

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#222

Post by IanCal »

fabioborellini wrote: post #97
vouwfietsman wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's worth repeating: Unless you have a stake in the company, it is NOT your job to make sure the company is the most profitable it can be. Your job is to create great software This is a terrible take, and one I generally see as a signal of lack of seniority in a software dev. It is absolutely everybody's job in the company to make sure it is profitable, unless you work for a non-profit. The thing is though, that p…

> This is a terrible take, and one I generally see as a signal of lack of seniority in a software dev. It is absolutely everybody's job in the company to make sure it is profitable, unless you work for a non-profit. Developers aren't compensated for any extraordinary achievement, though. Unless they own a notable share of the company. So, why should they give everything and get nothing back? How is that fair? Salespe…

> why should they give everything and get nothing back

They aren't giving everything they're there to do a job and that job is make the company profit.

The person you are replying to isn't saying "you need to go the extra mile to make profits" they're saying "you should be focused on making money for the company, not on personal preferences in your code".

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#223

Post by OvbiousError »

philipwhiuk wrote: post #163
thekitze wrote: post #69

Author here! I need to update this article. Years later, I actually got motivated by the comments on HN (whenever this gets posted). P People are always like "why don't you just ship your app?" ... so I did! I'm happy I went through with and it's way WAY better than any competitor in this category Check it out at https://benji.so (landing page is still w.i.p)

The landing page lags my browser. How is that even possible - it's a splash screen with a few images. What on earth are you doing on that page.

Rotating an image and moving some text apparently

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#224

Post by IanCal »

Culonavirus wrote: post #118
vouwfietsman wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's worth repeating: Unless you have a stake in the company, it is NOT your job to make sure the company is the most profitable it can be. Your job is to create great software This is a terrible take, and one I generally see as a signal of lack of seniority in a software dev. It is absolutely everybody's job in the company to make sure it is profitable, unless you work for a non-profit. The thing is though, that p…

> absolutely everybody's job in the company to make sure it is profitable Absolutely and categorically it is not. That is complete nonsense. Why should an employee care? Unless there's some profit sharing scheme in place that would benefit the said employee and they took advantage of that scheme. And even then, employees typically (and I'd even say in the vast majority of cases) have very few and tiny levers to pull…

> Absolutely and categorically it is not. That is complete nonsense. Why should an employee care?

They don't have to care, they are just there to do a job. If your company values a release now more than a more stable one later, it's not on you to refuse to do that.

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#225

Post by IanCal »

yamumsahoe wrote: post #54
treve wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This entire comment reads as someone who has a purely adversarial relationship with their coworkers with little trust. Sounds exhausting!

no, to me it doesnt. to me he's right about how devs should deliver it as engineeringly sound as possible, and executives should deliver it as timely as possible. its a balance between having a usable product and a product they need at the right time. it's not adversarial. its a conflict yes, but a healthy one.

They should all be aligned in what they're trying to achieve. Misalignment here is not healthy.

Swe should inform about consequences, and executives should inform about business priorities, but they don't have to all disagree on the way forwards.

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#226

Post by collingreen »

pdimitar wrote: post #212
portaouflop wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the original notion here was > Developers aren't compensated for any extraordinary achievement That as a blanket statement is just not true. Of course it does not apply to every single developer, I would even say it doesn’t apply to the majority.

It is true when it applies to the majority (and nobody said something is only true when it applies to 100% of a group because then absolutely nothing would ever be true when it comes to people). If you think otherwise and are convinced of it then you are very privileged -- and I actually envy you. You have no idea what contractor programmers go through out there, apparently.

This is too angry of a reply to someone adding their personal experience onto your comment about how the world is. I appreciate their anecdote refuting the claim; I think it makes a better discussion than just superlatives so I think you should get back to your point (which I mostly align with) instead of attack them on "just because you showed an example where my rule isn't true doesn't make my rule not true".

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#227

Post by wellbehaved »

philipwhiuk wrote: post #163
thekitze wrote: post #69

Author here! I need to update this article. Years later, I actually got motivated by the comments on HN (whenever this gets posted). P People are always like "why don't you just ship your app?" ... so I did! I'm happy I went through with and it's way WAY better than any competitor in this category Check it out at https://benji.so (landing page is still w.i.p)

The landing page lags my browser. How is that even possible - it's a splash screen with a few images. What on earth are you doing on that page.

OK Steve.

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#228

Post by unplug8224 »

fabioborellini wrote: post #185
throwaway84751 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like a toxic workplace, but you should do yourself a big favor and try to put that behind you. If you keep that mindset in your new job, your perspective will be negative and you risk burning out. If you work at a traditional workplace, think of yourself as a professional. Do the best work you can during business hours, without ruining your health. The company is paying you to make decisions that are best f…

I'm sorry to say but I'm very much burned out already. It all went well for a while after switching jobs, but the lockdowns and remote work ruined what was left of my life. My friends noted that they don't miss me, my company switched to completely remote etc. I can now only sleep and work, I can't even think of anything else anymore. I did put that behind me after switching jobs. My initial outlook and attitude on p…

A good therapist can help you with this.

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#229

Post by dspillett »

If I was writing something for myself, I'd not be sad that someone had beat me to it: it just proves that the idea was a good one!

Then again, none of the many personal projects I've got in my head and on paper (few of them even actually started) are ones that I would release to sell. They are things that I want or that friends/family/other might find useful. Heck, if I had something Alpha quality maybe I'd release that in the hopes someone would see it and think “this idea is useful, but the implementation is shite, I'll write a better one”.

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#230

Post by rustcleaner »

Elinvynia wrote: post #195
portaouflop wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience working in this industry is very different and devs do get recognition and sometimes bonuses (if certain goals are hit). Devs are paid a premium, have generally much more relaxed work schedules than managers or any customer facing role. If you screw over your health working in a toxic environment that’s on you IMO - as tech worker you probably have more opportunities to improve your working conditions t…

Make the company 100 millions and you are lucky to see more than 10k of it. If you believe otherwise I would question your real life experience.

While ad hominem is a fallacious way to handle a debate, it is a great way to determine motive for and if debate is even worthwhile.
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