The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020) • Hacker News Board

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#51

Post by f3b5 » Thu, Jul 04, 2024, 6:10 AM UTC

tdeck wrote: post #20

A few years ago I built a payment system for Google Forms as a side business (made about $3k from it before eventually turning it off to focus on other things). I'd found a problem nobody was actually solving and wanted to see if they'd be willing to pay to solve it. Like many of us I also had a bunch of partly finished projects that were never released, so I knew it could be a struggle to ship things. What I ended u…

Thanks for sharing! I'm going through the same thing at the moment, and it's nice to read that this pragmatic approach has worked well for you

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#52

Post by tass » Thu, Jul 04, 2024, 6:11 AM UTC

lukan wrote: post #3

On the other hand, there is no second try, to make a first impression. And the first impression lasts a while. So at least get some feedback before "just shipping". Otherwise reactions might be "doesn't work" - because what was obviously a start button for you making it, was not so obvious for someone just stumbling over it.

It doesn’t need to be shipped to the public. He shared videos with people, and those same people can be the first users of the MVP.

The point of an MVP is to elicit feedback, know you’re on the right track to build something useful, and iterate.

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#53

Post by jaggederest » Thu, Jul 04, 2024, 6:19 AM UTC

silisili wrote: post #18

ggeorgovassilis wrote: post #6

> so I started getting suspicious if someone actually shared the video of my app with these people because they were solving literally the same problem I once met a guy who had a good idea about an app, something that became fairly mainstream two years later. He asked me to code the app for free and we'd share revenues. When asked what his contribution would be, he offered to "run" the company and otherwise his 50% w…

As someone extremely logic and programming oriented, I -wish- I'd met someone like that. I'm just not an idea guy, apparently. If the idea was truly good so much so you believed in it, it was a heck of an offer tbh.

I'll give you any one of 3 or 4 ideas right now, if you want them. They're ideas I'd develop if I had the time, energy and brainpower. I've got personal connections for you too, if you want them, people who need the product. I won't even ask 50%, heck, 5% sounds fine by me.

My experience has been that, while that is useful, it's by no means sufficient to lead to a complete and useful tool. But I'd absolutely take that deal any day of the week, from the "idea" side of the fence. Imagine if you did it 20 times - quite a nice portfolio.

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#54

Post by yamumsahoe » Thu, Jul 04, 2024, 6:20 AM UTC

treve wrote: post #19

Culonavirus wrote: post #14

There's massive caveat with all of these "and then the story ends because we didn't just ship it :(" stories: sometimes the value of the "app" you're working on is in the technical details that cannot really be "hastened" and you can't "just ship it". Also, and this is something a lot of the managerial class people don't want to hear: Your job as a sw engineer/architect is to resist the "just ship it" pressure from t…

This entire comment reads as someone who has a purely adversarial relationship with their coworkers with little trust. Sounds exhausting!

no, to me it doesnt.

to me he's right about how devs should deliver it as engineeringly sound as possible, and executives should deliver it as timely as possible.

its a balance between having a usable product and a product they need at the right time.

it's not adversarial. its a conflict yes, but a healthy one.

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#55

Post by langsoul-com » Thu, Jul 04, 2024, 6:22 AM UTC

Isn't this more a lesson of keeping your cards close to your chest?

There's a very good reason why people are on guard with pitch decks. Cause those very people you pitched could just take the idea and throw money at it.

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#56

Post by silisili » Thu, Jul 04, 2024, 6:23 AM UTC

jaggederest wrote: post #53

silisili wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone extremely logic and programming oriented, I -wish- I'd met someone like that. I'm just not an idea guy, apparently. If the idea was truly good so much so you believed in it, it was a heck of an offer tbh.

I'll give you any one of 3 or 4 ideas right now, if you want them. They're ideas I'd develop if I had the time, energy and brainpower. I've got personal connections for you too, if you want them, people who need the product. I won't even ask 50%, heck, 5% sounds fine by me. My experience has been that, while that is useful, it's by no means sufficient to lead to a complete and useful tool. But I'd absolutely take tha…

The ideas are important, but remember the idea guy also was to run the company. That's a ton of work, too.

In any event, while I appreciate the offer, I'm now too old and domesticated to work on it. I guess my comment should have said I'd have loved to met someone like that in my early 20s, when I had more free time and my brain worked better :).

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#57

Post by shalmanese » Thu, Jul 04, 2024, 6:23 AM UTC

Culonavirus wrote: post #14

There's massive caveat with all of these "and then the story ends because we didn't just ship it :(" stories: sometimes the value of the "app" you're working on is in the technical details that cannot really be "hastened" and you can't "just ship it". Also, and this is something a lot of the managerial class people don't want to hear: Your job as a sw engineer/architect is to resist the "just ship it" pressure from t…

This is the wrong framing of it, shipping is an internal mental battle, not an external one.

We are not perfectly rational automatons that always work towards our rational best interests. Shipping is hard so we create mental battles inside ourselves to avoid it and use post-hoc justifications to feel morally ok with that decision.

The choice of when to ship isn't nearly as important as the answer to why you aren't shipping on the choice you said you would ship. Yes, shipping at different points of maturity represent different sets of tradeoffs in a complex multi-dimensional matrix and it's an intellectually fascinating challenge but often, the choice is far less important than the debate that sucks it in and engineers end up bikeshedding the decision. Whenever you find yourself bikeshedding, it's important to realize you don't solve it by looking at the decision but by looking at why people feel the need to bikeshed in the first place.

You talk about how "Your job is to create great software. What's great software? The kind you'd be willing to put on your resume without feeling bad.", what is the "job to be done" by that belief for you? Is this a true, genuine held belief by you or is that here as a cover to some deeper belief that is uncomfortable to surface?

The answer is something ultimately only you can answer and no internet comment can force that deep degree of introspection, only those close to you who have a requisite degree of insight and therapeutic practice can reliably help with that. But the larger point I want to make is that the shape of the conversation around shipping is all around exploring where we feel different mental resistance around shipping at any point in time and uncovering where that resistance truly comes from vs the reasons we make up to dress it up.

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#58

Post by lukan » Thu, Jul 04, 2024, 6:24 AM UTC

tass wrote: post #52

lukan wrote: post #3

On the other hand, there is no second try, to make a first impression. And the first impression lasts a while. So at least get some feedback before "just shipping". Otherwise reactions might be "doesn't work" - because what was obviously a start button for you making it, was not so obvious for someone just stumbling over it.

It doesn’t need to be shipped to the public. He shared videos with people, and those same people can be the first users of the MVP. The point of an MVP is to elicit feedback, know you’re on the right track to build something useful, and iterate.

"It doesn’t need to be shipped to the public"

Ok, I took it by the usual meaning of ship it to the market. Not having people test it.

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#59

Post by mirsadm » Thu, Jul 04, 2024, 6:26 AM UTC

Culonavirus wrote: post #14

There's massive caveat with all of these "and then the story ends because we didn't just ship it :(" stories: sometimes the value of the "app" you're working on is in the technical details that cannot really be "hastened" and you can't "just ship it". Also, and this is something a lot of the managerial class people don't want to hear: Your job as a sw engineer/architect is to resist the "just ship it" pressure from t…

Most deadlines are made up anyway. If it doesn't happen usually nothing happens.

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#60

Post by shalmanese » Thu, Jul 04, 2024, 6:26 AM UTC

langsoul-com wrote: post #55

Isn't this more a lesson of keeping your cards close to your chest? There's a very good reason why people are on guard with pitch decks. Cause those very people you pitched could just take the idea and throw money at it.

No, almost certainly the other people didn't start the project because they saw his video and were so inspired by the idea they rushed off to build it. Almost certainly, it was a case of parallel evolution where they faced a similar problem and there are only so many parameters in the design space so they figured out a similar solution.

People who focus on ideas think their ideas are so inspirational and unique that they must be protected. In reality, anyone who has tried to go out actively and convince anyone else to build their "brilliant" idea quickly realizes the level of indifference and lack of engagement anyone else has to your baby.