Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent system “dysfunctional” • Hacker News Board

Re: Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent system “dysfunctional”

#91

Post by fpgeek » Sat, Jun 09, 2012, 3:29 AM UTC

pg wrote: post #40

What a wonderful surprise. I'd forgotten about the judicial branch, and now they appear like the cavalry to sort out this mess. Wouldn't it be great if they went after the patent trolls next?

Live by the judicial branch, die by the judicial branch.

It is very much worth remembering that the judicial branch invented software patents in the first place. And that the Federal Circuit (which has jurisdiction for most patent-related appeals) seems to be a big fan of patents of all stripes and has been actively fanning the software patent flames. Fortunately, the Supreme Court has been correcting them recently on patents, but that is a slow, painful and potentially fallible process (see: Eldred v Ashcroft, IMO).

Re: Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent system “dysfunctional”

#92

Post by larrys » Sat, Jun 09, 2012, 3:30 AM UTC

portman wrote: post #73

pg wrote: post #40

What a wonderful surprise. I'd forgotten about the judicial branch, and now they appear like the cavalry to sort out this mess. Wouldn't it be great if they went after the patent trolls next?

I would like Paul Graham, Richard Posner, and perhaps Mike Bloomberg to have a long, meandering dinner party wherein they discuss and solve America's most important problems. It worked for Jefferson/Madison/Hamilton 222 years ago. This could be exactly what we need.

"solve America's most important problems."

Keep in mind that whatever dream team you assemble has to have experience solving real world problems. Not sure exactly of the connection between the individuals you choose and the particular problems that need to be solved but forgetting that for a second and assuming they are qualified there are also politics to consider. It's not as if the citizens are going to authorize binding arbitration by a group of arbitrarily chosen "smart" guys.

Re: Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent system “dysfunctional”

#93

Post by larrys » Sat, Jun 09, 2012, 3:37 AM UTC

jsprinkles wrote: post #49

mikek wrote: post #7

> [re a slide-to-unlock patent] Apple’s .. argument is that “a tap is a zero-length swipe.” That’s silly. It’s like saying that a point is a zero-length line. But a point is a zero-length line.

I'm beyond disappointed that the article is about the most important ruling regarding patent law in recent memory, and the overwhelming majority of this thread is arguing about the geometry cited in the judge's order. Rational people understood what he meant, even if maybe it's not 100% mathematically sound. This pedantry really frustrates me, and it extends beyond Hacker News. It's pervasive in conversations I've be…

"It's pervasive in conversations I've been having recently as well"

It's so much easier to do this as a result of information so readily available at your finger tip. So any statement anyone makes can be quickly verified and corrected with pretty good precision. Wondering if the people who corrected you in conversations looked up the fact on their iphone (or whatever) while you weren't looking.

Re: Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent system “dysfunctional”

#94

Post by reader5000 » Sat, Jun 09, 2012, 3:42 AM UTC

gruseom wrote: post #76

Posner is so famous and respected and such a polymath that his absence from the Supreme Court is conspicuous. Does anyone know why he's never been nominated?

Probably because at the times vacancies have existed he was not the strategically optimal candidate in the President's political maneuvering?

Re: Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent system “dysfunctional”

#95

Post by larrys » Sat, Jun 09, 2012, 3:47 AM UTC

jsprinkles wrote: post #57

ars wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and the overwhelming majority of this thread is arguing about the geometry cited in the judge's order. Rational people understood what he meant, even if maybe it's not 100% mathematically sound. > This pedantry really frustrates me People are well aware that they are nit picking, but they enjoy the resulting discussion! Intellectually inclined people enjoy discussing minutia with other like minded people. They are…

Your entire comment would be wise were it not for, both in the case of my anecdote and this original comment, the observation that someone is incorrect. It's one thing to enjoy intellectual pursuits, it's another to put down others, belittle them, or critique their opinions because of a perceived mistake they made (such as the geometry). It's doubly worse if the mistake has no bearing whatsoever on the actual opinion…

"it's another to put down others, belittle them, or critique their opinions because of a perceived mistake they made (such as the geometry)"

I would guess that people who are in certain professions which require precision would be more likely to act this way. Because lack of precision would cause the plane to crash or the bridge to fail or the code to croak. Medicine (drugs) for example is not really super precise when you think about it. Dosing isn't so critical that if you take a little more or a little less you end up dead or sick. You have latitude. (Of course someone who knows more than I about this would point out that coumadin (Warfarin) dosing is quite critical and correct me.)

Have you found that to be the case in your IRL conversations?

Re: Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent system “dysfunctional”

#96

Post by te_chris » Sat, Jun 09, 2012, 4:09 AM UTC

reader5000 wrote: post #89

te_chris wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By the rich for the rich then? Sounds about right. Seriously though, you want 3 privileged, white men to decide the fate of your entire country? I'm all for smart people coming up with solutions, and I know your comment wasn't mean't to be taken too seriously, but this is just ridiculous. Technocracy is not the answer, no matter how much technologists would love it to be.

I don't believe a racial attack is in any way an appropriate response to portman's comment.

That wasn't a racial attack, it was pointing out that the 3 people who he proposed to "fix" everything were among the most privileged people on the planet (in part due to the colour of their skin). This was done to try and make the point that, given past history, another round of letting the most privileged people on the planet come up with "solutions", probably won't get us very far.

Re: Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent system “dysfunctional”

#97

Post by tptacek » Sat, Jun 09, 2012, 4:27 AM UTC

gruseom wrote: post #76

Posner is so famous and respected and such a polymath that his absence from the Supreme Court is conspicuous. Does anyone know why he's never been nominated?

Two big reasons: (1) he's not doctrinaire enough for either party (as a shorthand: Obama can't assure supporters Posner would uphold Roe, and Romney can't assure supporters he won't), and (2) at 73, he's way too old; nominating Posner is like giving the next sitting opposition President an extra nominee.

Did you ever read the Becker-Posner blog?

Re: Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent system “dysfunctional”

#98

Post by dpatru » Sat, Jun 09, 2012, 4:41 AM UTC

gruseom wrote: post #76

Posner is so famous and respected and such a polymath that his absence from the Supreme Court is conspicuous. Does anyone know why he's never been nominated?

"Posner's most significant contribution has been in law and economics, the influential legal movement he practically created. (...) Looking at the world through a strictly economic lens, he writes with a refreshing, parsimonious intensity. He also, occasionally, produces outrageous conclusions, such as his contention in a 1999 article in the literary journal Raritan that the rule of law is an accidental and readily dispensable element of our legal ideology, and his argument in favor of buying and selling babies on the free market in lieu of government-regulated adoption. Add his advocacy of legal marijuana and LSD, and it is clear that Posner -- despite his obvious brilliance -- will never sit on the U.S. Supreme Court." - Robert S. Boynton, The Washington Post (20/1/2002) from http://www.complete-review.com/authors/posner.htm.

I've also read that Posner was deemed too old by either Clinton or Bush. Presidents want to have a lasting influence on the Court.

Re: Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent system “dysfunctional”

#99

Post by jsprinkles » Sat, Jun 09, 2012, 4:52 AM UTC

larrys wrote: post #95

jsprinkles wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your entire comment would be wise were it not for, both in the case of my anecdote and this original comment, the observation that someone is incorrect. It's one thing to enjoy intellectual pursuits, it's another to put down others, belittle them, or critique their opinions because of a perceived mistake they made (such as the geometry). It's doubly worse if the mistake has no bearing whatsoever on the actual opinion…

"it's another to put down others, belittle them, or critique their opinions because of a perceived mistake they made (such as the geometry)" I would guess that people who are in certain professions which require precision would be more likely to act this way. Because lack of precision would cause the plane to crash or the bridge to fail or the code to croak. Medicine (drugs) for example is not really super precise wh…

No. Most of my conversations revolve around my career, and I'm a system administrator. Bike shedding I had already identified to be a problem. Pedantry like this I'm starting to notice as well.

Re: Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent system “dysfunctional”

#100

Post by gruseom » Sat, Jun 09, 2012, 5:20 AM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #97

gruseom wrote: post #76

Posner is so famous and respected and such a polymath that his absence from the Supreme Court is conspicuous. Does anyone know why he's never been nominated?

Two big reasons: (1) he's not doctrinaire enough for either party (as a shorthand: Obama can't assure supporters Posner would uphold Roe, and Romney can't assure supporters he won't), and (2) at 73, he's way too old; nominating Posner is like giving the next sitting opposition President an extra nominee. Did you ever read the Becker-Posner blog?

Of course, he wasn't always old :) But probably always volatile. Amusing to imagine a senate confirmation hearing with a nominee who's ok with selling babies and LSD (per dpatru's comment).

I haven't read their blog – should I?