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The first 10k games at bgammon.org, an open source online backgammon service

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Re: The first 10k games at bgammon.org, an open source online backgammon service

#41

Post by me_me_me »

huimang wrote: post #27

Something I've thought a lot while playing backgammon locally is "I wish there was a site like lichess, but for backgammon"... so kudos for going out and starting your own! Are there any plans for post-game analysis? There seems to be an issue with the login/signup form, as it doesn't pull up the native keyboard for my phone, but some random keyboard.

https://www.playok.com/

its english version of polish kurnik.pl (henhouse)

Its as old as polish internet, very rudimentary but always active for all kind of games

Re: The first 10k games at bgammon.org, an open source online backgammon service

#42

Post by TylerE »

fforflo wrote: post #30
huimang wrote: post #27

Something I've thought a lot while playing backgammon locally is "I wish there was a site like lichess, but for backgammon"... so kudos for going out and starting your own! Are there any plans for post-game analysis? There seems to be an issue with the login/signup form, as it doesn't pull up the native keyboard for my phone, but some random keyboard.

I got a feeling that this may be a cultural aspect there too: Backgammon is not considered "sophisticated," I think. I'm from Greece (I don't play backgammon myself, though), and backgammon (tavli) is extremely popular but widely considered "a game for the masses." It is played mostly in tavernas and old-style coffee shops, and each game has a social aspect, too. People discussing (sometimes shouting and finger-point…

Interesting, I've seen the opposite. In the US it's hardly played at all, nowhere near something like chess or poker, but a large (relative) percentage of the play that happens is for money, often at absolute nosebleed stakes.

Re: The first 10k games at bgammon.org, an open source online backgammon service

#43

Post by TylerE »

postexitus wrote: post #40
tslocum wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the user-agent claims to be Android, the play link is changed to the Play Store. This is because the web client runs single-threaded[0] and has reduced performance when running in a browser on desktop, let alone when running on a mobile platform. When running as a native Android app, all of the device's CPU cores are utilized. 0. https://github.com/golang/go/issues/28631

Why would a backgammon game need multiple threads?

So the UI can respond while the CPU is calculating. Assuming the AI is using some sort of alpha-beta search the CPU also will scale embarrassingly well across multiple threads.

Re: The first 10k games at bgammon.org, an open source online backgammon service

#44

Post by tslocum »

oldmariner wrote: post #38
oldmariner wrote: post #33

Pretty cool, thanks! I was casting my pieces off, guaranteed a win, but my opponent left, so it didn't count as a win for me to my disappointment. Perhaps if someone leaves and doesn't return within 60 seconds, the game should be a win for the person remaining if the remaining person's pip count is lower.

Happened a second time :-( although this time my opponent still had a chance. Both games where my opponent left, now show as wins in my history. Also, I like the dice addition, but on desktop, the dice images are not matching up with what is rolled and displayed in the log. How long does an opponent have until they auto forfeit if they don't move?

Thanks. The way inactivity is handled is covered in the FAQ: https://bgammon.org/faq/#what-happens-if-a-player-goes-inact...

You shouldn't need to wait more than 30 seconds to see a win in your history after you also leave the game.

Will you please share a screenshot of the dice issue?

Re: The first 10k games at bgammon.org, an open source online backgammon service

#45

Post by tslocum »

Y_Y wrote: post #28
tslocum wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the user-agent claims to be Android, the play link is changed to the Play Store. This is because the web client runs single-threaded[0] and has reduced performance when running in a browser on desktop, let alone when running on a mobile platform. When running as a native Android app, all of the device's CPU cores are utilized. 0. https://github.com/golang/go/issues/28631

I would much prefer to run single threaded in the browser than be cajoled into installing another fucking app.

I would rather offer the browser-based version to everyone, but it is an objectively worse experience because of the state of the Go compiler. You can still visit the broswer-based version if you want to, it's just a link swap on the page done in JavaScript.

Out of curiosity, what do you think I should do? Keep in mind, not everyone feels the same about being "cajoled" into installing an open source application. But virtually everyone won't appreciate the UI hangs.

Re: The first 10k games at bgammon.org, an open source online backgammon service

#46

Post by CodesInChaos »

postexitus wrote: post #40
tslocum wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the user-agent claims to be Android, the play link is changed to the Play Store. This is because the web client runs single-threaded[0] and has reduced performance when running in a browser on desktop, let alone when running on a mobile platform. When running as a native Android app, all of the device's CPU cores are utilized. 0. https://github.com/golang/go/issues/28631

Why would a backgammon game need multiple threads?

I agree than the basic functionality should require so little work that multiple threads should be useless. Some features like bots or game analysis could benefit from multiple threads, and should at the very least run outside the main UI thread. However these are only nice-to-have, and I'd be happy with a web-client that either doesn't support these at all, or only uses a single worker thread. And I see no reason to support this on desktop, while redirecting to an app on mobile.

Moving those features a webworker so the UI stays responsive should be easy, however I'm not sure how synchronizing multiple webworkers to take advantage of multiple cores compares to synchronizing multiple threads in a native app.

Re: The first 10k games at bgammon.org, an open source online backgammon service

#47

Post by oldmariner »

tslocum wrote: post #44
oldmariner wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Happened a second time :-( although this time my opponent still had a chance. Both games where my opponent left, now show as wins in my history. Also, I like the dice addition, but on desktop, the dice images are not matching up with what is rolled and displayed in the log. How long does an opponent have until they auto forfeit if they don't move?

Thanks. The way inactivity is handled is covered in the FAQ: https://bgammon.org/faq/#what-happens-if-a-player-goes-inact... You shouldn't need to wait more than 30 seconds to see a win in your history after you also leave the game. Will you please share a screenshot of the dice issue?

https://imgur.com/a/bqyWblS

Maybe it was the Firefox addon Canvas Blocker? That addon was crashing the game, so I disabled it and appears to work now. The game still makes my laptop fans kick on though.

Re: The first 10k games at bgammon.org, an open source online backgammon service

#48

Post by Y_Y »

tslocum wrote: post #45
Y_Y wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would much prefer to run single threaded in the browser than be cajoled into installing another fucking app.

I would rather offer the browser-based version to everyone, but it is an objectively worse experience because of the state of the Go compiler. You can still visit the broswer-based version if you want to, it's just a link swap on the page done in JavaScript. Out of curiosity, what do you think I should do? Keep in mind, not everyone feels the same about being "cajoled" into installing an open source application. But…

Maybe you could offer both links, with a note that says what you just said?

(I don't think you're forcing free open backgammon down people's throats, but there's an existing fatigue due to less scrupulous publishers detecting mobile browsers and pushing people away from otherwise functional websites.)

Re: The first 10k games at bgammon.org, an open source online backgammon service

#49

Post by tslocum »

huimang wrote: post #27

Something I've thought a lot while playing backgammon locally is "I wish there was a site like lichess, but for backgammon"... so kudos for going out and starting your own! Are there any plans for post-game analysis? There seems to be an issue with the login/signup form, as it doesn't pull up the native keyboard for my phone, but some random keyboard.

Thanks. Yes, I hope to support analyzing games in the future. I experimented with interfacing with gnubg to accomplish this, and hit a brick wall, as gnubg really isn't designed for computers to use it. From what I can tell, I would need to scrape the terminal output of gnubg to do this programmatically. I haven't found any open source engines that seem easier to interface with, if anyone knows of one, please share.

The internal keyboard is shown rather than the device keyboard because on many devices, using the device keyboard does not work. It either doesn't show at all, or it is shown but key input is not registered. I hope that the game engine powering bgammon.org adds support for using device keyboards soon, and will be glad to revert to using device keyboard as soon as possible.

Re: The first 10k games at bgammon.org, an open source online backgammon service

#50

Post by starmftronajoll »

bonzini wrote: post #15

Backgammon had a pretty large community at Yahoo! Games. With the demise of Yahoo! Games the only place to play online was FIBS, for which you had to download a Java client... Glad that finally someone scratched their own itch and built this, I will check it out and suggest it to my father.

I’ve played for a long time at BG Galaxy, judging by online backgammon forums (and activity on BGG itself), it’s a pretty popular place to play.

https://www.backgammongalaxy.com/

Edit: Hey tslocum, rather than downvoting anyone who mentions other sites where people can play backgammon, I’d love for you to tell us more about why you believe your site is or will become superior to the existing options. There’s room for improvement in this space, but you’re definitely not there yet.

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