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It's getting harder to die

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Re: It's getting harder to die

#151

Post by Theodores »

basisword wrote: post #53
Theodores wrote: post #16

This is a really good article, not least for the list of ways that you will be kept medically alive. As for the premise of the article, it is definitely getting easier to die. We had the plumbers and the rubbish collecting workers clear up our communicable chronic diseases, we de-industrialised and cleared up the air, we quit smoking, put on our seat belts and reigned in the alcohol. So far so good. But, if you look…

>> But, if you look at the physiques of people, the levels of car dependency and the predominance of the Standard American Diet, it seems that people are going the way of Joe Biden in old age If I can continue in my career at 80, let alone run one of the biggest countries in the world, I’ll be pretty happy. Car dependence, the SAD and obesity are going to bring back heart attacks in ones 60’s - not a generation of ha…

Biden was not all there with his 'Cornpop' speech of 2017. After that performance he should have made a dignified retirement. The people around him should have shuffled him off the stage too. There was too much going on in his 'Cornpop was a bad dude' rambling that it really should have been game over, there and then.

Notionally he has his finger on the nuclear button and he is a decade past his sell by date. You have to question the intellect of anyone, up to and including Obama, that do not see this.

My cousin has an elderly dog that has a habit of knocking expensive crockery off a coffee table with his tail, blissfully unaware and unable to see the problems caused. We love the dog and tell him that he is a good boy, but we don't let him drive the car or light the barbeque. We commend the dog for being able to lay a golden nugget in the park but nobody else in the family gets told they have done well for doing a number two.

For some reason people with Trump Derangement Syndrome seem to ignore reality with Biden, if he falls up the stairs then they make excuses for him, plus they know so much about him that they have no knowledge of the legendary 'Cornpop was a bad dude' speech, despite it being comedy gold.

I have no problem with people that have mental disabilities, but the territory known as the United States can do better than to have octogenarians that have brains clearly addled by the American lifestyle of unhealthy food and unhealthy modes of transport.

Re: It's getting harder to die

#152

Post by shawabawa3 »

andai wrote: post #124
rrgok wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wholeheartedly support this point of view. Death should be an option freely and easily accessibile to anyone. Why have people here who don't want to be here?

I like to use a metaphor. You're at a party. You politely say goodbye to everyone and start heading for the exit. You are restrained and drugged. Nice party, bro...

You're at a party. You politely say goodbye to everyone and start heading for the exit.

You are restrained and drugged. You are coerced into signing euthanasia papers and are swiftly killed.

Re: It's getting harder to die

#153

Post by dghlsakjg »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #99
ozim wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know that government doesn’t care about you. They care about your relatives who are burdened not “accidentally” holding that button for you when somehow you would still like to live.

In the US, the big reason is religious groups that want to force their religion onto others.

There’s an interesting case right now in Vancouver against the largest hospital downtown which is affiliated with Catholics (I think, St Paul’s is the facility in any case).

Several in-patients that opted for medical assistance in dying were refused that treatment by administrators of the hospital on religious grounds, and their families are sueing based on the additional suffering inflicted by having to transfer to other facilities.

Re: It's getting harder to die

#154

Post by rrgok »

anonymouskimmer wrote: post #149
rrgok wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't quite understand this. Postponing my death won't solve the problem; it's inevitable. The real question is, whose time takes priority—others' or mine?

This is a good point. I guess the only counter argument is that, so far, in general, postponing elective death also leads to a bunch of solutions to other problems over the course of a life, even if the original problem is unsolvable.

People forget that the other problems are created by life itself. There is no way out by playing its game. You cannot escape the problem making machine by using it: it will only produce more problems.

But the truth is that I'm not convinced that death is the "the winning move is not playing it". You see death is life: in order to die you must be alive first.

That's why lately I'm thinking unconsciousness is the way out, but I'm not sure about that too.

Re: It's getting harder to die

#155

Post by dghlsakjg »

anonymouskimmer wrote: post #120
lotsofpulp wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, the big reason is religious groups that want to force their religion onto others.

There are anti-euthanasia atheists (E.g. Kevin Yuell).

There are pro assisted suicide religions too.

Neither of those matter because they don’t hold massive, disproportional influence over a huge part of the US political establishment.

Re: It's getting harder to die

#156

Post by dghlsakjg »

conroydave wrote: post #15
vundercind wrote: post #11

Recently watched someone close die over a couple days, after a long decline. The last 24 hours were monstrous to inflict on anyone. Torture. Evil. Hours and hours of faltering breathing, often restarting with what was plainly a panicked adrenaline-pumping response. It looked like they felt like they were about to drown every few minutes , hour, after hour, no relief. No IV fluids (terminal anyway, so no trying to kee…

Watched my grandfather pass in the same way. Didn’t seem right to let him pass of basically lack of food and hydration after 95 years even though also terminal. I just wanted to see him comfortable and he was far from it.

In the last days when organs start failing, food and drink don’t necessarily make things more comfortable since the body can’t handle it.

Re: It's getting harder to die

#157

Post by lotsofpulp »

dghlsakjg wrote: post #153
lotsofpulp wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, the big reason is religious groups that want to force their religion onto others.

There’s an interesting case right now in Vancouver against the largest hospital downtown which is affiliated with Catholics (I think, St Paul’s is the facility in any case). Several in-patients that opted for medical assistance in dying were refused that treatment by administrators of the hospital on religious grounds, and their families are sueing based on the additional suffering inflicted by having to transfer to…

Catholic hospitals are a big problem in the US too.

Re: It's getting harder to die

#158

Post by conroydave »

dghlsakjg wrote: post #156
conroydave wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Watched my grandfather pass in the same way. Didn’t seem right to let him pass of basically lack of food and hydration after 95 years even though also terminal. I just wanted to see him comfortable and he was far from it.

In the last days when organs start failing, food and drink don’t necessarily make things more comfortable since the body can’t handle it.

Thanks for sharing. Helps a little bit

Re: It's getting harder to die

#159

Post by raffraffraff »

ksenzee wrote: post #46
louwrentius wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m quite convinced that I live in a country where we never let people die like this. Also, I guess prolonging treatment is in the interest of for-profit hospitals as found in other countries, thus as long as your suffering is profitable, you wil…

I would be surprised if there exists a country where people never die like this. You would have to euthanize every single person who died of a long list of natural causes.

This is from personal experience, but there is a difference between letting someone take 2 weeks to starve or die of dehydration, and big-letters "euthanasia". Sometimes the people who work in palliative care are nuanced enough to ease you out when your final days come. Where I live, euthanasia is not legal. But when my sister was dying from cancer she directly told her palliative meds guy "I watched my uncle gasp for two weeks. I'm not going like that. You hear me?"

When it came to it, she didn't. It still wasn't petty because death-by-cancer never is. She was extremely weak and thin and tired. But on her last day she spoke to everyone in the family, gave weak hugs, said goodbyes. I guarantee you that guy took away days (at least) of suffering. We all knew that. He knew that. She knew that. Nobody said it though.

And I think that's better than someone who can't afford to deal with a disability being asked if they're prefer to die than cost the state lots of money. Horror stories both sides of the nuance.

Re: It's getting harder to die

#160

Post by dghlsakjg »

shawabawa3 wrote: post #152
andai wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like to use a metaphor. You're at a party. You politely say goodbye to everyone and start heading for the exit. You are restrained and drugged. Nice party, bro...

You're at a party. You politely say goodbye to everyone and start heading for the exit. You are restrained and drugged. You are coerced into signing euthanasia papers and are swiftly killed.

In the real world, most people struggle to get permission to opt for medical assistance in dying.

Nobody is getting coerced into suicide.

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