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Maker of RStudio launches new R and Python IDE

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Re: Maker of RStudio launches new R and Python IDE

#91

Post by ImaCake »

ds_opseeker wrote: post #87
ImaCake wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it is for you, but the success of Dplyr and ggplot suggests a lot of others disagree.

I wonder how much of this is just a feedback loop; were people taught both tools and then chose the one that works best, or was one more heavily promoted than the other, so people went with what was easiest to get started?

Im sure that’s part of it. But you could say the same for using python or R over another language. Besides, someone who knows R well enough to write DplyR thought the situation was dire enough to write it. And there’s also data.table but that is inscrutable to most folks and I have only ever used it for fread - which is 10x faster than any other method of loading csvs into R.

Re: Maker of RStudio launches new R and Python IDE

#92

Post by jhbadger »

setopt wrote: post #56
ImaCake wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>ported to python are just objectively worse in that language This is absolutely the case. Dplyr syntax is much more intuitive for many use cases than Pandas or Polars equivalents. One thing I miss from RStudio is the Rmarkdown documents with inline outputs. Jupyter notebooks, even in VSCode, are so needlessly over-engineered and under-featured compared to the elegance of RMarkdown. So I am excited to see what Posit…

> One thing I miss from RStudio is the Rmarkdown documents with inline outputs RMarkdown (Rmd) was recently developed into “Quarto” (Qmd), precisely because they now support Python as well. I’ve used it a bit and it’s excellent.

But Rmd already supported python chunks (as well as other languages such as ruby, which seem to be missing from Qmd)

Re: Maker of RStudio launches new R and Python IDE

#93

Post by 0cf8612b2e1e »

vixen99 wrote: post #83
aydyn wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Youre wrong. Python is outpacing R in usage. Every metric you can find proves it. R also has fundamental issues and lacks serious development.

Not to dispute because I have no idea so I'll assume you're correct. But how many metrics did you find and how were they obtained? And how would you know they are representative of all R users?

For whatever it is worth, the TIOBE index lists Python as #1, R at #21.

Python is the first language many people are exposed to today. It has a library and tooling for every use case.

https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/

Re: Maker of RStudio launches new R and Python IDE

#94

Post by dcreater »

thomas_mock wrote: post #86
SassyBird wrote: post #71

Are they going to drop RStudio? I very much prefer its Qt interface over whatever VSCode invented. It’s fast, has nice keyboard shortcuts, none of that pointless padding and it just feels great to use.

Hey! Product Manager for RStudio here (and Positron). We have no plans to stop development or maintenance on RStudio, and are committed to it for our users, both paid and community. While Positron and RStudio have some features in common, some R-focused features will remain exclusive to RStudio. If you're currently using RStudio and are happy with the experience, you can continue to enjoy RStudio. RStudio includes 10…

I was a huge fan of RStudio and was pretty much the biggest reason I used R. But then I realized how bad R is, syntactically, and how much more useful Python and it's ecosystem are. Then I discovered VS code and Jupyter notebooks in VS code which completely sealed the deal. So unless you are in need of specific R data science packages, Python seems like the way to go. I'm quite excited to try Positron!

Re: Maker of RStudio launches new R and Python IDE

#95

Post by dcreater »

gepost wrote: post #17

What is the strategy behind the dizzying pace of product changes in the R/Python space? I heard that RStudio was a great product, yet they have to redo everything again, of course also renaming the company as is also standard practice in the Python "scientific" market. Is it Jupyter envy? Why is it not possible to keep one good product and stay with it? I wish MatLab licenses weren't so expensive, at this point I'd j…

VS code has been a pillar all along? MATLAB is utter trash on macos, slow and a dated ui. Also why support proprietary languages with predatory marketing tactics

Re: Maker of RStudio launches new R and Python IDE

#96

Post by jmcphers »

SassyBird wrote: post #77
wodenokoto wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not QT. The interface is HTML+css via node.

It’s Qt: https://github.com/rstudio/rstudio/blob/main/src/cpp/desktop... It seems with some JavaScript generated from Java via Gwt. Regardless, I prefer it over VSCode UI.

RStudio was based on QtWebKit, then migrated to QtWebEngine, then finally migrated to Electron (which is what it uses today). You'll find some vestigial Qt code in the repository but it isn't used for the shipping releases any more.

Re: Maker of RStudio launches new R and Python IDE

#97

Post by jmcphers »

bluenose69 wrote: post #65

I would expect a bit more backwards compatibility for R packages. When I open a package.Rproj file with RStudio, it has GUI elements to build the package, to test it, etc. When I open it with positron, it is treated like a text file, at least as far as I can tell by looking at the many icons and pulldown menus. It is a weird choice, making a new application that cannot handle the key file type from its ancestor.

Positron isn't supposed to be a replacement for RStudio for all use cases (especially not this early in its lifecycle!). If you open your package folder in Positron (as opposed to the Rproj file itself) I think you'll find it has most of the commands you need for package development in the Palette.

We do hope to add better GUI tooling for project-level actions; more info here: https://github.com/posit-dev/positron/issues/1486

Re: Maker of RStudio launches new R and Python IDE

#99

Post by greentxt »

disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #78
boringg wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Im curious about the people who use R in big tech companies that you've worked at. Were the R users the people who had just come out of school and still working using their academic dev environment before weening off? I always found that was the group who used R - kind of a use what you are used to until it gets out of step with the remaining workflow. I also would say that the amount of R I see is far less than pyth…

So, (speaking as someone who started with R and now predominantly writes Python), I think there's a bunch of things going on here. 1. R is 100% better for analytics work and statistical modelling. There's just no contest. 2. Python is much, much better for data getting (APIs/scraping etc) and dealing with non table-like data. Again, there's basically no contest here. 3. Software engineers hate R (in most cases), whic…

One of the better comments in this thread, I would only qualify that different levels of ability mediate much of the "how hard is it to make an unmaintainable mess" dimension. Dplyr/tidy code can be pasta, as can pandas, and there is really a whole new level of that given llm generated nonesense edited/tweaked by novices masquerading as seniors.

Apropos this idea of a vs code competitor, I wish they would spend more effort on existing products. I find quarto frustratingly buggy and meanwhile see no reason to move my workflow from vscode to this new thing. Ymmv

Re: Maker of RStudio launches new R and Python IDE

#100

Post by mistrial9 »

mattgreenrocks wrote: post #21
NewJazz wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wdym, the whole comment or just that statement? If you meant the statement, then yeah. I was just offering the context for my usage of copilot. Essentially a solution in search of an unstated problem.

It’s amusing to me to see companies asking their devs to play with AI to try to find some kernel of value there. Meanwhile, if said devs do that playing in other languages/frameworks, they’re chastised for not focusing on business value.

famously in San Diego IIR, a large corporation of some kind announced outsourcing and layoffs.. then proceeded to require the employees to train the new outsourced people for more than a month! dimly recalled from business news after the 2008 meltdown
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