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Maker of RStudio launches new R and Python IDE

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Re: Maker of RStudio launches new R and Python IDE

#11

Post by teruakohatu »

mbreese wrote: post #8
jmcphers wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

open-remote-ssh doesn't currently work with Positron because Positron does not currently build the bundles that need to be installed inside the remote host. We're definitely interested in making this work, though; stay tuned!

That’s been my problem with any non-MS vscode distribution. Missing Remote-SSH and devcontainers. Both of which I tend to use a lot — especially remote ssh with large datasets that exist on remote servers. Otherwise, I’d be all in for this!

Yes I agree, I forgot about dev containers.

If I am doing ML most of the time I am using a server GPU with a large dataset. This is one of the use cases that made me use VSCode more than RStudio.

When I have really wanted to use RStudio I use the web version, but its less pleasant than a simple ssh remote.

Re: Maker of RStudio launches new R and Python IDE

#12

Post by NewJazz »

teruakohatu wrote: post #9
adityamwagh wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are you guys using Copilot? I feel it’s a PITA and interferes in between everytime I try to use it. How do you use it properly?

Mostly for boilerplate things like assigning a bunch of thing to a dictionary, it usually knows what I am thinking.

Have you ever stopped to consider why you are writing code like that, and if it is necessary in the first place?

I think if you are spamming a lot of code that looks like:

    thing = params.get('thing')
    thong = params.get('thong')
    ...
    thunk = params.get('thonk')
then you probably aren't delivering a lot of value with your code.

In fact that overly verbose code could be a liability because it has to be reviewed (possibly multiple times as people look over the code to see how values are getting assigned).

Re: Maker of RStudio launches new R and Python IDE

#13

Post by NewJazz »

adityamwagh wrote: post #7
teruakohatu wrote: post #5

This looks great, combining the best of VSCode and RStudio. I prefer coding in VSCode but prefer data exploration in RStudio. One issue with this is the lack of copilot. Copilot can be installed on VSCodium [1] but it breaks often. The other is MS’s proprietary Remove Development extension that enables a lot of functionality in VSCode. There is an open equivalent but I haven’t tried it [2] [1] https://github.com/VSCo…

How are you guys using Copilot? I feel it’s a PITA and interferes in between everytime I try to use it. How do you use it properly?

My employer is asking me to try out Copilot to see if it offers a lot of value. IMO about 90% of the time it is an annoying interruption that offers to help me write a few characters (which I could probably write faster if I wasn't being interrupted) or maybe a few lines at most. 5% of the time it offers downright incorrect suggestions, and about half of those suggestions are only subtly incorrect, so I have to be on-guard about anything I use it for. 5% of the time it offers suggestions that I didn't consider, but are definitely a positive contribution. E.g. checking input parameter validity.

I've heard that one way to use it effectively is writing a detailed comment about what you want to do, then let it suggest the code. I personally don't like those style of comments, so I'd have to:

- enable copilot if I have it disabled (I have a keymap for this in vim)

- write the comment

- carefully review that the suggestion is correct and complete

- accept the suggestion, then go back up to delete the comment

kinda inconvenient, but if I was blanking on a bunch of stdlib functions maybe it would help? But accepting the copilot suggestions doesn't add imports, whereas accepting language server suggestions often does (e.g. with gopls).

Re: Maker of RStudio launches new R and Python IDE

#14

Post by NewJazz »

NewJazz wrote: post #13
adityamwagh wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are you guys using Copilot? I feel it’s a PITA and interferes in between everytime I try to use it. How do you use it properly?

My employer is asking me to try out Copilot to see if it offers a lot of value. IMO about 90% of the time it is an annoying interruption that offers to help me write a few characters (which I could probably write faster if I wasn't being interrupted) or maybe a few lines at most. 5% of the time it offers downright incorrect suggestions, and about half of those suggestions are only subtly incorrect, so I have to be on…

Some examples of wrong suggestions... things like suggesting OpenIDConnectClientCredentialsFlow when the actual name of the class is just OpenIDConnectClientCredentials. Language servers will have the correct suggestion, and Copilot is just a bother and a hindrance in that case.

Re: Maker of RStudio launches new R and Python IDE

#15

Post by mistrial9 »

NewJazz wrote: post #13
adityamwagh wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are you guys using Copilot? I feel it’s a PITA and interferes in between everytime I try to use it. How do you use it properly?

My employer is asking me to try out Copilot to see if it offers a lot of value. IMO about 90% of the time it is an annoying interruption that offers to help me write a few characters (which I could probably write faster if I wasn't being interrupted) or maybe a few lines at most. 5% of the time it offers downright incorrect suggestions, and about half of those suggestions are only subtly incorrect, so I have to be on…

> My employer is asking me to try out Copilot

this says more about your employer than CoPilot ?

Re: Maker of RStudio launches new R and Python IDE

#16

Post by NewJazz »

mistrial9 wrote: post #15
NewJazz wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My employer is asking me to try out Copilot to see if it offers a lot of value. IMO about 90% of the time it is an annoying interruption that offers to help me write a few characters (which I could probably write faster if I wasn't being interrupted) or maybe a few lines at most. 5% of the time it offers downright incorrect suggestions, and about half of those suggestions are only subtly incorrect, so I have to be on…

> My employer is asking me to try out Copilot this says more about your employer than CoPilot ?

Wdym, the whole comment or just that statement? If you meant the statement, then yeah. I was just offering the context for my usage of copilot. Essentially a solution in search of an unstated problem.

Re: Maker of RStudio launches new R and Python IDE

#17

Post by gepost »

What is the strategy behind the dizzying pace of product changes in the R/Python space? I heard that RStudio was a great product, yet they have to redo everything again, of course also renaming the company as is also standard practice in the Python "scientific" market.

Is it Jupyter envy? Why is it not possible to keep one good product and stay with it?

I wish MatLab licenses weren't so expensive, at this point I'd just buy one and sit all this churn out.

Re: Maker of RStudio launches new R and Python IDE

#18

Post by 0cf8612b2e1e »

gepost wrote: post #17

What is the strategy behind the dizzying pace of product changes in the R/Python space? I heard that RStudio was a great product, yet they have to redo everything again, of course also renaming the company as is also standard practice in the Python "scientific" market. Is it Jupyter envy? Why is it not possible to keep one good product and stay with it? I wish MatLab licenses weren't so expensive, at this point I'd j…

I think the R people see the writing on the wall. Python has sucked all the air out of the room, and it is becoming increasingly difficult for them to target the R space exclusively.

If you had no legacy or compliance requirements, are you going to start a new data project in SAS, R, or Python? Where are you going to find the most talent?

Re: Maker of RStudio launches new R and Python IDE

#19

Post by juujian »

gepost wrote: post #17

What is the strategy behind the dizzying pace of product changes in the R/Python space? I heard that RStudio was a great product, yet they have to redo everything again, of course also renaming the company as is also standard practice in the Python "scientific" market. Is it Jupyter envy? Why is it not possible to keep one good product and stay with it? I wish MatLab licenses weren't so expensive, at this point I'd j…

As a regular R/bash/python user, I think the Posit philosophy is increasingly to break down barriers between the languages. It's no longer an either/or relationship, you can use both. And some packages or features that have been ported to python are just objectively worse in that language, so the want for R is definitely there.

Also, a lot of the Posit team are fully "bilingual", it's not like the old guard of academic R contributors. My impression is they appreciate both languages for what they have to offer.

For me, I'm apathetic to the languages, the only thing I care about is the output.

Re: Maker of RStudio launches new R and Python IDE

#20

Post by manilbeat »

gepost wrote: post #17

What is the strategy behind the dizzying pace of product changes in the R/Python space? I heard that RStudio was a great product, yet they have to redo everything again, of course also renaming the company as is also standard practice in the Python "scientific" market. Is it Jupyter envy? Why is it not possible to keep one good product and stay with it? I wish MatLab licenses weren't so expensive, at this point I'd j…

Rstudio came out a long time ago at this point. I actually think it feels quite dated personally.

A data science focused version of VS Code with some kind of notebook sounds rather awesome to me.

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