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Maker of RStudio launches new R and Python IDE

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Re: Maker of RStudio launches new R and Python IDE

#61
post #58
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Speaking of which: does anyone here on HN feel comfortable recommending a Python IDE that's half-way bearable on iPads?

Not an IDE, but “Carnets” gives you a local (i.e. offline) Jupyter installation on iPadOS that includes NumPy, SciPy, Matplotlib, etc.

I second this recommendation.

I used Carnets for the Advent of Code last year. I ran out of steam long before it did.

Re: Maker of RStudio launches new R and Python IDE

#62
post #30
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a regular R/bash/python user, I think the Posit philosophy is increasingly to break down barriers between the languages. It's no longer an either/or relationship, you can use both. And some packages or features that have been ported to python are just objectively worse in that language, so the want for R is definitely there. Also, a lot of the Posit team are fully "bilingual", it's not like the old guard of academ…

>ported to python are just objectively worse in that language This is absolutely the case. Dplyr syntax is much more intuitive for many use cases than Pandas or Polars equivalents. One thing I miss from RStudio is the Rmarkdown documents with inline outputs. Jupyter notebooks, even in VSCode, are so needlessly over-engineered and under-featured compared to the elegance of RMarkdown. So I am excited to see what Posit…

RMarkdown really is great. I used RStudio/RMarkdown for almost all my homeworks, projects, and even papers with no code during my MS program. I now realize that it was Pandoc's Markdown mixed with LaTeX that I appreciated so much for scientific writing, but with RMarkdown you can easily call R and Julia.

I don't remember invoking Python from RMarkdowm (maybe you already could in RStudio but I never did), so this will be a welcome addition in this new Posit program.

Re: Maker of RStudio launches new R and Python IDE

#63

Just noticed this: Because Microsoft does not allow third-party IDEs to access the official VS Code Marketplace ... Anyone know why? My wild guess is it means MS doesn't want third parties to build their own VS Code based IDEs (like this one)?

There's some thoughtful speculation on this here: "Visual Studio Code is designed to fracture" - https://ghuntley.com/fracture/

Very interesting, I hope the (formerly) RStudio people read this. So they are giving up an IDE (RStudio) that was famous for far better graphics and plotting than the Python alternatives for a half-open third party solution where Posit is the sharecropper.

This Microsoft "DevDiv" (see the link) sounds like the classic EEE dressed up as "open", "hip" and with all the right buzzwords.

Re: Maker of RStudio launches new R and Python IDE

#65
I would expect a bit more backwards compatibility for R packages. When I open a package.Rproj file with RStudio, it has GUI elements to build the package, to test it, etc.

When I open it with positron, it is treated like a text file, at least as far as I can tell by looking at the many icons and pulldown menus.

It is a weird choice, making a new application that cannot handle the key file type from its ancestor.

Re: Maker of RStudio launches new R and Python IDE

#66
post #35
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Earlier quoted context omitted.

>ported to python are just objectively worse in that language This is absolutely the case. Dplyr syntax is much more intuitive for many use cases than Pandas or Polars equivalents. One thing I miss from RStudio is the Rmarkdown documents with inline outputs. Jupyter notebooks, even in VSCode, are so needlessly over-engineered and under-featured compared to the elegance of RMarkdown. So I am excited to see what Posit…

I don't even know why people need to use dpyler and the tidyverse, in my opinion R is very comfortable for data wrangling and making all kinds of plots out of the box. Its able to handle huge amounts of data as well especially if you adopt a functional programming approach vs object oriented (what I see with a lot of the classic "academic" brittle hardcoded slop that R gets a bad rap for). Very fast if you keep in mi…

Base graphics are also _massively_ faster than ggplot when data sizes get larger. To the extent that ggplot essentially becomes unusable.

Re: Maker of RStudio launches new R and Python IDE

#67
post #17

What is the strategy behind the dizzying pace of product changes in the R/Python space? I heard that RStudio was a great product, yet they have to redo everything again, of course also renaming the company as is also standard practice in the Python "scientific" market. Is it Jupyter envy? Why is it not possible to keep one good product and stay with it? I wish MatLab licenses weren't so expensive, at this point I'd j…

Modern software can't work, that's is and no, I'm serious and have no intention to start a flame. Original desktops was a single OS-environment-framework, witch was "fragile" to a certain extent, but anything have to evolve in a fully integrated environment, this means FAR LESS code FAR LESS deps for anything. This means that's easy for the user to bend the environment to their wishes and for devs to create something "on the shoulder of giants" being with them instead of having something like https://xkcd.com/2347/ modern projects are typically written in Silicon Valley mode, anchoring the project and some deps without any reasoning about they future, scalability, maintainability and so on. Something change, anything on top collapse.

In practice we have nearly ZERO development for desktop apps, simply because modern desktops are still widget based stuff who was sold a "what we need", against the complexity of classic DocUIs, and then we migrate to modern web witch is a bad DocUI, so developing for the desktop is simply a nightmare. To add features we can't much "use the environment" so all apps tend to try doing anything inside evolving toward unmaintainable monsters no one can handle their codebase and at a certain point in time they became a kind of a framework where "features" became "ideas of someone" without a coherent vision or a target "for the application" like Eclipse from an IDE to a platform some use to code, some others to pay taxes (yes, Italian gov. have made Desktop Telematico witch is a custom Eclipse to fill taxes).

As the classic Greenspun's tenth rule we witness the same: we damn need an OS as a single user-programmable application like Emacs or doing ANYTHING is a nightmare and there is no long lasting solution.

Re: Maker of RStudio launches new R and Python IDE

#68
post #35
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>ported to python are just objectively worse in that language This is absolutely the case. Dplyr syntax is much more intuitive for many use cases than Pandas or Polars equivalents. One thing I miss from RStudio is the Rmarkdown documents with inline outputs. Jupyter notebooks, even in VSCode, are so needlessly over-engineered and under-featured compared to the elegance of RMarkdown. So I am excited to see what Posit…

I don't even know why people need to use dpyler and the tidyverse, in my opinion R is very comfortable for data wrangling and making all kinds of plots out of the box. Its able to handle huge amounts of data as well especially if you adopt a functional programming approach vs object oriented (what I see with a lot of the classic "academic" brittle hardcoded slop that R gets a bad rap for). Very fast if you keep in mi…

My feeling is that people with a more mathematical background tend to like developping DSLs that look more like math than code, and is typically written once and then thrown away; whereas people with a more software engineering background tend to prefer code that is more explicit about what it does, and have a better understanding about long term implications for maintenanability/extensibility. Which for me is the summary of the R versus Python debate in general.

One can see that in the JVM world with java vs scala: people attracted to scala tend to like "cute" DSL, java people tend to be more careful with shiny new features. (This is an oversimplification, of course)

Specifically for dplyr: it looks cute and tends to be easier to use in a REPL setting (you can build your pipeline step by step by running your command, looking at the output, get the command from history, add a step, run again; and at the end you get a single line to copy paste in your script). But if you want to wrap it in a function, it tends to create issues.

Re: Maker of RStudio launches new R and Python IDE

#69
post #35
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>ported to python are just objectively worse in that language This is absolutely the case. Dplyr syntax is much more intuitive for many use cases than Pandas or Polars equivalents. One thing I miss from RStudio is the Rmarkdown documents with inline outputs. Jupyter notebooks, even in VSCode, are so needlessly over-engineered and under-featured compared to the elegance of RMarkdown. So I am excited to see what Posit…

I don't even know why people need to use dpyler and the tidyverse, in my opinion R is very comfortable for data wrangling and making all kinds of plots out of the box. Its able to handle huge amounts of data as well especially if you adopt a functional programming approach vs object oriented (what I see with a lot of the classic "academic" brittle hardcoded slop that R gets a bad rap for). Very fast if you keep in mi…

The base graphics packages make the plots as ugly as the ones generated by gnuplot though. ggplot2 on the other hand has very pretty output. And the concept of grammar of plots just makes so much sense to me.

Re: Maker of RStudio launches new R and Python IDE

#70

It seems a little odd to me that this is not just… a vscode extension pack?

A good question. The VS Code extension API is pretty powerful but extensions run separately from the main workbench process and they can't draw any meaningful UI on it. This was a great design decision IMHO as it is the core reason VS Code has a reputation for a minimalist UI and good performance despite being based on Electron. However it also made it impossible to build the kinds of experiences we wanted to with Po…

I'm curious if you would be willing to elaborate on what your plans are for longer term feature parity with vscode? As in I can imagine as vscode receives continued development and new features you will have the development burden of having to integrate these updates into your fork. Are you planning to keep up-to-date with vscode or will the products essentially drift a part over time? If the latter would this mean extension developers have to build separate extensions for your IDE?
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