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Gemma 2: Improving Open Language Models at a Practical Size [pdf]

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Re: Gemma 2: Improving Open Language Models at a Practical Size [pdf]

#21

Hello (again) from the Gemma team! We are quite excited to push this release out and happy to answer any questions! Opinions are our own and not of Google DeepMind.

How is Gemma-2 licensed?

The terms of use remain the same as Gemma 1 - https://ai.google.dev/gemma/terms.

Re: Gemma 2: Improving Open Language Models at a Practical Size [pdf]

#22
post #13
post #7

I gave up hope on r"Gem[ma|ini]" long time ago. I don't believe that Google can't produce good LLMs because of its massive company size; Microsoft is also a giant company (more market cap than Google) but it keeps surprising us with the ϕ models. I think Google just lacks the vision to understand what makes a good LLM. Theoretical contributions by research teams are valuable, but the real-world is built around engine…

I wonder if Google is making Deepmind people switch from their cool original research to doing LLMs like everybody else. Having their scale in money and data, I would hire new teams of engineers who want to do LLMs and leave the Deepmind researchers do their thing. Not killing the goose that lays golden eggs.

Google is in a fight for their lives, I've fully moved over to paid services and haven't used google in about a month now.

Re: Gemma 2: Improving Open Language Models at a Practical Size [pdf]

#23
This is great:)

And when we continue fine-tune.how much and what type of data we learn it on, I'm pretty sure for a smart agent who is not a knowledgeable expert but primarily a agent (understand what and how) this will get smaller and easier to run everywhere.

Re: Gemma 2: Improving Open Language Models at a Practical Size [pdf]

#24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

think about training.

I suppose it would act as a concrete separator when instruct tuning, but lots of prompt templates don't use it, especially older ones like Alpaca. Maybe it leads to more overall coherence?

Not instruct tuning, you use it in general training.

If you have a bunch of small prompts/answers, you can fit them into bigger batches if you use start/stop tokens.

Re: Gemma 2: Improving Open Language Models at a Practical Size [pdf]

#25
post #7

I gave up hope on r"Gem[ma|ini]" long time ago. I don't believe that Google can't produce good LLMs because of its massive company size; Microsoft is also a giant company (more market cap than Google) but it keeps surprising us with the ϕ models. I think Google just lacks the vision to understand what makes a good LLM. Theoretical contributions by research teams are valuable, but the real-world is built around engine…

Can't speak to Gemma, but I found 1.5 superior to Claude and ChatGPT 4 when it came out. The trend seems to be each taking the lead when it comes out, being king of the hill for a couple weeks, and then being surpassed by the next.

Claude's reign has begun, and I'd say it has a solid enough lead for at least another two weeks of dominance before it's dethroned.

Re: Gemma 2: Improving Open Language Models at a Practical Size [pdf]

#26

So it's twice the size of phi 3 and considerably worse? What am I missing

Worse in some aspects, better in other.

Small models are never going to be generalists, so having several small models allows you to pick the one that best fits your needs.

Re: Gemma 2: Improving Open Language Models at a Practical Size [pdf]

#27
I'm curious about the use of explicit tokens like , , , and . What happens if the user insert those in their message? Does that provide an easy way to "ignore previous instructions"?

Do I have to manually sanitize the input before I give it to the model?

Re: Gemma 2: Improving Open Language Models at a Practical Size [pdf]

#28
post #7

I gave up hope on r"Gem[ma|ini]" long time ago. I don't believe that Google can't produce good LLMs because of its massive company size; Microsoft is also a giant company (more market cap than Google) but it keeps surprising us with the ϕ models. I think Google just lacks the vision to understand what makes a good LLM. Theoretical contributions by research teams are valuable, but the real-world is built around engine…

And the training samples are overly tied to Vertex

Re: Gemma 2: Improving Open Language Models at a Practical Size [pdf]

#29
post #15

Phi-3 blow this out of the water. Benchmark | Gemma 2 (9B) | Phi-3 Small (7B) -----------------------------|----------------|------------------- MMLU (5-Shot) | 63.6 | 75.7 HellaSwag (5-Shot) | 49.8 | 77.0 ANLI (7-Shot) | 48.7 | 58.1 GSM-8K (8-Shot; CoT) | 59.8 | 89.6 MedQA (2-Shot) | 49.6 | 65.4 AGIEval (0-Shot) | 42.1 | 45.1 TriviaQA (5-Shot) | 72.3 | 58.1 Arc-C (10-Shot) | 78.3 | 90.7 Arc-E (10-Shot) | 91.4 | 97.0…

Phi is notorious for benchmark overfitting. It's good, but not as good as it looks on the charts. On the Lmsys leaderboard it places a whole 23 spots behind Llama-3-8B which it also claims to soundly beat on the above. So YMMV.

Re: Gemma 2: Improving Open Language Models at a Practical Size [pdf]

#30
post #15

Phi-3 blow this out of the water. Benchmark | Gemma 2 (9B) | Phi-3 Small (7B) -----------------------------|----------------|------------------- MMLU (5-Shot) | 63.6 | 75.7 HellaSwag (5-Shot) | 49.8 | 77.0 ANLI (7-Shot) | 48.7 | 58.1 GSM-8K (8-Shot; CoT) | 59.8 | 89.6 MedQA (2-Shot) | 49.6 | 65.4 AGIEval (0-Shot) | 42.1 | 45.1 TriviaQA (5-Shot) | 72.3 | 58.1 Arc-C (10-Shot) | 78.3 | 90.7 Arc-E (10-Shot) | 91.4 | 97.0…

Another take on this: phi-3 small has 1100 ELO on LMSYS (ranked #52) while the confidence interval for Gemma 2 9B is [1170, 1200] ELO (ranked btw #15 and #25).
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