Ladybird browser spreads its wings • Hacker News Board

Re: Ladybird browser spreads its wings

#311

Post by peoplefromibiza » Mon, Jun 24, 2024, 10:07 AM UTC

voidwtf wrote: post #151

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in languages that don't maintain strict memory safe contract? for the same reason people still use the English language, despite being full of crazy inconsistencies and being very hard to become a native speaker, coming from another language: proficiency. Proficiency is one of the most, if not the most, valuable metric when choosing the tool you will use to take on some complex/daunting task.

This makes the most sense and thank you for offering a genuine answer to my question. Which leads to a follow-up question. Has the rise of these memory safe languages caused any shift in the proficiencies of the average developer? I see a lot of younger people gush over python early in their careers but see a lot of Java/.NET in enterprise. I personally grew up learning Delphi, PHP, and HTML. Java and .NET came later…

> Has the rise of these memory safe languages caused any shift in the proficiencies of the average developer?

That's a good question, but I have no answer for it.

AFAIK the data is missing or is inconsistent.

But I can link to you the obligatory Ken Thompson's "three weeks away from an OS"

https://youtu.be/EY6q5dv_B-o?t=1360&si=Nx6dK4KigZJ3962F

Re: Ladybird browser spreads its wings

#312

Post by the_other » Tue, Jun 25, 2024, 8:42 AM UTC

8organicbits wrote: post #193

the_other wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Safari is 18% of global web traffic, 7x that of Firefox. (from a hasty scan of caniuse.com)

I challenge those numbers. Global stats aren't important, just the stats for your target audience. My sites see 13% Firefox, 35% Safari. But keep in mind, FF users sometimes spoof the Chrome user agent because some sites break otherwise. Further, I suspect FF users have tracking blockers at a higher rate, so they don't show up. https://indieweb.social/@robalex/112472853515037460

> just the stats for your target audience. My sites see 13% Firefox, 35% Safari.

So your stats back up my point that Safari is a popular browser. The post I was challenging completely ignored the existence of Safari and your post backs up mine. Thanks.

Re: Ladybird browser spreads its wings

#313

Post by the_other » Tue, Jun 25, 2024, 8:43 AM UTC

t00ny wrote: post #170

the_other wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Safari is 18% of global web traffic, 7x that of Firefox. (from a hasty scan of caniuse.com)

How much of this is attributable to the iOS lock-in though?

Who cares? Why are you arguing in favour of monopoly?

Re: Ladybird browser spreads its wings

#314

Post by niutech » Thu, Jun 27, 2024, 1:38 PM UTC

getcrunk wrote: post #119

oskarkk wrote: post #32

One commenter who worked on Firefox made a nice blog post in response, about what it takes to make a web browser: https://robert.ocallahan.org/2024/06/browser-engine.html

For a new project I wonder how much simpler (or secure) a browser could be made if you only allowed a subset of js and browser apis. I’d wildly guesstimate for 70% of use cases you wouldn’t even need 50% of stuff with some slight modifications. The web is just so bloated. Edit: might as well prune down the css a little too and maybe dump wasm, webgl and canvas

This is what Sciter, Lexbor or litehtml are aiming for.

Re: Ladybird browser spreads its wings

#315

Post by niutech » Thu, Jun 27, 2024, 2:21 PM UTC

galangalalgol wrote: post #203

gus_massa wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is convining anyone to write a website in this. You will have like 3 sites that use only the subset. The closest example is AMP, but you must be Google to force people to use it.

A surprising number of websites work fine without js.

Websites with text content maybe, but the web is full of webapps which require JS.

Re: Ladybird browser spreads its wings

#316

Post by niutech » Thu, Jun 27, 2024, 2:30 PM UTC

manuelmoreale wrote: post #10

I’m irrationally excited for this project. The idea of a community built browser is incredibly appealing considering the current landscape where all browsers are either Chrome, Chrome in a trench coat, or Firefox

Why is WebKit, the second most popular web engine worldwide, a "Chrome in a trench coat"? Actually WebKit is the Blink's older brother, whose father was KHTML.

Re: Ladybird browser spreads its wings

#317

Post by niutech » Thu, Jun 27, 2024, 2:31 PM UTC

manuelmoreale wrote: post #275

shrimp_emoji wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about surf? https://surf.suckless.org/

Isn’t this based on WebKit so it’s not really a new browser?

Yes, it's based on WebKit.

Re: Ladybird browser spreads its wings

#318

Post by niutech » Thu, Jun 27, 2024, 2:33 PM UTC

Dubh33 wrote: post #252

infotainment wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They actually have an official blog with status updates! https://servo.org/blog/ They do have an official “browser”, ServoShell, which is basically a minimalistic testbed. IIRC adding tabs to it is on their roadmap.

It looks like the repository for servoshell was archived in 2019. What’s weird is if you go to their website and download the tech demo it’s basically the same thing but may actually be updated.

Servoshell is developed here: https://github.com/servo/servo/tree/main/ports/servoshell

Re: Ladybird browser spreads its wings

#319

Post by niutech » Thu, Jun 27, 2024, 2:37 PM UTC

lawn wrote: post #149

A related question: What's the state with Servo? Do I understand it correctly that Servo is the core of a browser but not the browser itself? How much work would it be to create a browser on top of Servo? And is there such a project?

There is a Qt webview using Servo engine: https://github.com/KDABLabs/cxx-qt-servo-webview