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Ladybird browser spreads its wings
271–280 of 319 posts
Re: Ladybird browser spreads its wings
#272One commenter who worked on Firefox made a nice blog post in response, about what it takes to make a web browser: https://robert.ocallahan.org/2024/06/browser-engine.html
For a new project I wonder how much simpler (or secure) a browser could be made if you only allowed a subset of js and browser apis. I’d wildly guesstimate for 70% of use cases you wouldn’t even need 50% of stuff with some slight modifications. The web is just so bloated. Edit: might as well prune down the css a little too and maybe dump wasm, webgl and canvas
The conversation regarding restrictions on the feature set within the browser always focuses on the browser itself, but there is definitely an opportunity to rally website makers. If Google or Apple came out and said we have a reduced feature set you can use that makes our browser render your website faster it would be a good opportunity, and I think many website makers would jump at the opportunity. A sort of Google AMP, but good! Let's call it Strict HTML.
Re: Ladybird browser spreads its wings
#273Earlier quoted context omitted.
Technically nothing; the problem lies entirely in the Mozilla Foundation which takes about $500B each year from Google. Officially the motivation is to keep Google as preferred search engine, but seriously the Firefox user base is so small that I don't even think Google would be interested for much less if there weren't strings attached that very likely create a huge conflict of interest if Mozilla become dependent o…
> $500B I think you may have made a typo. Possibly $500M?
Whoops, apologies, you're right. I completely missed it and now it's too late to correct.
Re: Ladybird browser spreads its wings
#274It is a perfect time for new browser. I long for the days of good old Opera, when each release brought something new and fresh. Multiple browser windows in tiled layout, browser gestures, disabling image loading from UI (although that was standard feature in dial-up era of internet), UI customization, integrated email client and feed reader.
Re: Ladybird browser spreads its wings
#275I’m irrationally excited for this project. The idea of a community built browser is incredibly appealing considering the current landscape where all browsers are either Chrome, Chrome in a trench coat, or Firefox
What about surf? https://surf.suckless.org/
Isn’t this based on WebKit so it’s not really a new browser?
Re: Ladybird browser spreads its wings
#276Why build another browser, from scratch, in C++?
From GitHub. > Ladybird is a truly independent web browser, using a novel engine based on web standards. So I assume they want to build a truly independent web browser instead of leaving the Browser market to Google, Apple, and Firefox (relies heavily on Google ad revenue.) and executives that run them who are primarily motivated by money.
Why build from scratch?
If building from scratch, why do it in c++?
Re: Ladybird browser spreads its wings
#277For a newbie like me who isn’t like a software eng wizard but is willing to put an hour or two every day, is a project like this a great way for me to learn and contribute? Or is it still so pre-alpha that you need deep domain knowledge to contribute and have an impact?
I’ll be that guy and point out that if you have to ask this question, it may not be the best personal fit. Unpaid open source contributions work the best and last the longest when they scratch your personal itch. Find a bug or a missing feature in a piece of open source software you use all the time; find an abandoned project you need and try to improve it; or build something you want but doesn’t yet exist. Forcing y…
> Unpaid open source contributions work the best and last the longest when they scratch your personal itch. Find a bug or a missing feature in a piece of open source software you use all the time
Most of the open source software I use are really rock solid, so I’m not sure what bug or missing feature I would be able to add. I also think as a newbie it’s perhaps useful to work where I can learn a lot in a short amount of time. Those dopamine hits can be pretty awesome :)
Re: Ladybird browser spreads its wings
#278For a newbie like me who isn’t like a software eng wizard but is willing to put an hour or two every day, is a project like this a great way for me to learn and contribute? Or is it still so pre-alpha that you need deep domain knowledge to contribute and have an impact?
I remember encountering this blog series of Chrome architecture articles[0] and telling myself I need to read through it (and, to date, still never have :) Maybe it is of interest. (Just a heads up, it dates back to 2018.) [0]: https://developer.chrome.com/blog/inside-browser-part1
Whoa, incredible resource. Thank you!
Re: Ladybird browser spreads its wings
#279Earlier quoted context omitted.
All of those problems can be fixed by legal means. We cannot expect the market to regulate itself into a healthy competitive balance. Force sites to implement baseline standards and not rely on non-standard features. Disallow major web players from pushing their own browsers and from relying on their own browser's non-standard features. Permanently require browser ballots on all widely used consumer OS's. Heavily fin…
There has been 30/40 years of internet, and no legal battle has manage to get anything on that regard. I would even say, topics on the internet with a lot of lobbying, such as pirating software/media, in the same timeframe, has managed to get absolutely nothing done. I am afraid, it would not be possible to regulate legally.
Yet regulations have happened and continue to, just different ones of varying ... quality/purpose. Even among preservation/piracy there have been moderately successful efforts.
Apathy will not bring change. Only speech and action.
Re: Ladybird browser spreads its wings
#280Earlier quoted context omitted.
In the early 2010s a ballot appeared for new users on Windows [0], though the legal requirement expired only a few years later. It helped other browsers gain market share. Sadly it's not enough alone. Major web players can promote their own browser and sabotage others, even if only by neglecting to test them. IMO a permanent ballot law is needed alongside restrictions from major web vendors pushing their own browser'…
Do you perhaps mean to argue you think it helped other browsers lose users slower than they otherwise might have? From your link: > Competing browsers saw their traffic increase,[16] suggesting that these smaller competing developers were gaining users. However, long-term trends show browsers such as Opera and Firefox losing market share in Europe, calling into question the usefulness of the browser choice screen.[1]…
On the whole it did only slow the tide. Yet it wasn't enough alone, limited to one OS, in one market, for only ~4 years, at a time when Google was pushing its own from some of the world's most popular services. Still, every victory is worth celebrating.
Moping every time a (modestly successful) approach is brought up isn't going to move the needle.
Dominant browsers rely on many tricks to gain and hold their position. It will take more than one approach to restore a balance.