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Vigorous Exercise, Cognitive Decline, and High Blood Pressure

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Re: Vigorous Exercise, Cognitive Decline, and High Blood Pressure

#111

Post by nathan_douglas »

yosame wrote: post #108
navjack27 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same compulsion that drives the smoker to smoke drives the person that eats compulsively to eat. Be it for comfort or habit. Hormones and neurotransmitters drive behavior. What gets deposited into your bank account and what gets stocked at your local grocery drives what you put into your body to survive. If eating healthy is too expensive or outright impossible because of what is stocked at your local grocery and…

I'd argue that it's harder to quit compulsive eating than it is to quit compulsive smoking. You can't go cold turkey on food

What does “going cold turkey on food” look like here? Because I’ve quit a pack-a-day-for-ten-years nicotine addiction, and I’ve dieted by slightly increasing exercise and slightly decreasing caloric consumption to produce a daily deficit of about 250-500 calories in line with mainstream medical recommendations, and I can tell you which I found harder… and it wasn’t drinking diet soda and walking around the block in the morning.

Re: Vigorous Exercise, Cognitive Decline, and High Blood Pressure

#112

Post by graemep »

georgeplusplus wrote: post #89
johnnyanmac wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the problems are lack of time for exercise and money for a healthy diet. pretty much. You go to some circles that will keep swearing by "Calories in, Calories out", and blaming any detteral of this as laziness. It's basically the equivalent of saying "stop smoking" to a smoker. Yes, they are objectiely right, but also miss all the subtlety of the steps needed to "stop smoking". Time is definitely the biggest factor,…

Where exactly is the nuance in this? I pity the smoker more because they don’t have to smoke but feel compelled to smoke through addiction. You have direct control over how many calories you consume and it’s a basic human instinct to eat. Saying there’s nuanced steps inbetween is just a way to hand wave away someone’s laziness to not tackle the problem.

> I pity the smoker more because they don’t have to smoke but feel compelled to smoke through addiction.

We all feel compelled to eat.

A lot of cheap food does not satisfy hunger for as long as better food.

Just cutting calories in can make you feel less able to do things, so you automatically cut back on exercise.

People differ in many ways: metabolism, genetics, physical sicknesses, mental health, gut bacteria and probably many more things I cannot think of will change how the same diet affects different people, and their ability to exercise.

Re: Vigorous Exercise, Cognitive Decline, and High Blood Pressure

#113

Post by kelipso »

tzs wrote: post #107
CalRobert wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, one clear market-based solution would be pricing transportation appropriately. If people were allowed to not pay for car infrastructure (via parking minimums, restrictive zoning, taxpayer-funded highways, etc. et.) and take their bike and train instead there would be a strong price signal to encourage the healthier activity. I moved to the Netherlands a year ago and have already lost 9kg (about 20 pounds) witho…

Looking at car ownership rates in the US over time and comparing to hypertension rates over time there doesn't seem to be much correlation.

There is like a multi decade lag between walking less and health issues. There's no way you're going to see correlations like that.

Hell I doubt you will even see much correlation between car ownership rates and miles driven in a car or walking distances but at least that's a correlation that you might possibly see in data.

Re: Vigorous Exercise, Cognitive Decline, and High Blood Pressure

#114

Post by sebnun »

zarzavat wrote: post #34

Somewhat unrelated but is there any SOTA for what “vigorous cardiovascular exercise” should be to optimize benefits? Should I just exercise flat out and try to sustain that as long as I can, or is there a level of vigorous exertion below flat out that leads to better results because of the longer duration?

HIIT fits the bill https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-intensity_interval_traini...

Re: Vigorous Exercise, Cognitive Decline, and High Blood Pressure

#115

Post by danielbln »

nabla9 wrote: post #62

Difference is just 5.8 per 1000 person-years. The effect size is very modest. You spend more time in exercising than increase your lifespan. The metaphor is literal, you are running from death and disease, and death is running faster. What we need is review studies ranking lifestyle and health regimes by their effect size and combined effect sizes. Almost certainly combining two effective regimes increases the life-…

It think it's important to differentiate between life expectancy and quality of life. If you're a tub of good and sedentary, you might spend the last 10% of your life trapped in a failing body, which can very much tank your quality of life, whereas the fit person might actually be able to enjoy the golden years. I feel that's something that often is overlooked when talking about pure life expectancy.

Re: Vigorous Exercise, Cognitive Decline, and High Blood Pressure

#116

Post by zarzavat »

sebnun wrote: post #114
zarzavat wrote: post #34

Somewhat unrelated but is there any SOTA for what “vigorous cardiovascular exercise” should be to optimize benefits? Should I just exercise flat out and try to sustain that as long as I can, or is there a level of vigorous exertion below flat out that leads to better results because of the longer duration?

HIIT fits the bill https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-intensity_interval_traini...

I know about HIIT and it makes sense to me but I’ve never seen any evidence that it’s better than less strenuous exercise, only that it takes less time.

Re: Vigorous Exercise, Cognitive Decline, and High Blood Pressure

#117

Post by bob1029 »

sebnun wrote: post #114
zarzavat wrote: post #34

Somewhat unrelated but is there any SOTA for what “vigorous cardiovascular exercise” should be to optimize benefits? Should I just exercise flat out and try to sustain that as long as I can, or is there a level of vigorous exertion below flat out that leads to better results because of the longer duration?

HIIT fits the bill https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-intensity_interval_traini...

In my experience, HIIT is unbelievably effective but there is a bit of a tradeoff with this path.

If you can make yourself do proper HIIT regularly you will become batman but the mental barrier of intentionally making something "suck" as much as possible (and then some) is really tricky to get over. Even once you are "on the wagon" it's a difficult habit to maintain.

I find 30-60 minutes of moderate daily cardio to be much more approachable on a regular basis. It also feels more meditative to me than rushing through a 20 minute hellscape. I can sit down and write code for hours after getting off the rowing machine. After a CrossFit routine I just want to nap all day.

Re: Vigorous Exercise, Cognitive Decline, and High Blood Pressure

#118

Post by hombre_fatal »

tzs wrote: post #107
CalRobert wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, one clear market-based solution would be pricing transportation appropriately. If people were allowed to not pay for car infrastructure (via parking minimums, restrictive zoning, taxpayer-funded highways, etc. et.) and take their bike and train instead there would be a strong price signal to encourage the healthier activity. I moved to the Netherlands a year ago and have already lost 9kg (about 20 pounds) witho…

Looking at car ownership rates in the US over time and comparing to hypertension rates over time there doesn't seem to be much correlation.

I'm surprised I need to say this on HN, but you can't make inferences from this sort of uncontrolled choose-your-own-correlation-adventure in a whole population over time because thousands of things have changed in the population over that time.

If this were your epistemic standard, you'd have to accept all sorts of absurd or conflicting conclusions.

Re: Vigorous Exercise, Cognitive Decline, and High Blood Pressure

#119

Post by lostmsu »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #83
nabla9 wrote: post #62

Difference is just 5.8 per 1000 person-years. The effect size is very modest. You spend more time in exercising than increase your lifespan. The metaphor is literal, you are running from death and disease, and death is running faster. What we need is review studies ranking lifestyle and health regimes by their effect size and combined effect sizes. Almost certainly combining two effective regimes increases the life-…

Living longer but less fit is no prize. It's also misery to shuffle around and wheeze through every minute of your life. Exercise improves sleep, improves cognitive function and make tasks easier and more enjoyable. Everything about your life improves. I bicycle, and I enjoy it. It is one of the reasons I want to live longer .

> Exercise improves sleep, improves cognitive function and make tasks easier and more enjoyable.

Sleep maybe. My cognitive function is down for extended periods of time after prolonged exercise. I see no effect on exercising vs my life enjoyability except immediately after exercise I feel happy, because that torture is over and I can resume thinking.

Re: Vigorous Exercise, Cognitive Decline, and High Blood Pressure

#120

Post by pengaru »

nabla9 wrote: post #98
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Living longer but less fit is no prize. It's also misery to shuffle around and wheeze through every minute of your life. Exercise improves sleep, improves cognitive function and make tasks easier and more enjoyable. Everything about your life improves. I bicycle, and I enjoy it. It is one of the reasons I want to live longer .

Good for you. But this is not about you. I feel the same, but this is not about me. For people who read this and don't exercise, may not feel it enjoyable, it's often uphill all the time. They don't like exercise. Maybe being just thin and losing weight would be better, or doing non-vigorous exercise. We don't have much information. We make stories going off the tangent on some studies.

Everybody feels better when healthy, and worse when sick.

Viewing this topic purely through years of life extension is severely flawed.

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