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Volkswagen invests up to $5B in Rivian

bloomberg.com

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Re: Volkswagen invests up to $5B in Rivian

#41

Post by [deleted] »

ajb wrote: post #31
dtech wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently working together with Apple is extremely difficult because they are so controlling and demanding, and that is even without the cultural and timezone difference, so I doubt it's viable.

Apple regularly does acquisitions (like, multiple per year), so I guess it's not impossible - but they seem to usually be much smaller companies which presumably assimilate. Their last big one[1] seems to have been the purchase of Intel's smartphone modem for $1B, still a lot smaller than VW's market cap of $58B. A company which does multiple acquisitions per year will have a team specialising in the integration of a…

[deleted]

Re: Volkswagen invests up to $5B in Rivian

#42

Post by swores »

constantcrying wrote: post #39
swores wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or even make it a full acquisition, but allow VW to remain a separate organisation with its own CEO and own board who answer to Apple's shareholders (and/or to the very top Apple execs) rather than to a separate group of shareholders? I.E. securing any future VW profits, and ensuring that the IP licensing deal is indefinite, while staying hands off and allowing VW to keep doing what they do with the exception of usin…

VW has comparable revenue to Apple, 4 times the employees, twice the assets and triple the equity. Additionally it can only be bought by negotiating with a single family. No, apple can not buy VW. This idea is totally absurd.

If you look a few comments higher than mine, you'll see that the context of my comment and the one I replied to start from:

> In another universe, I wonder [about Apple + VW joining forces]

We're not speculating on what might happen tomorrow, just discussing hypotheticals for the scenario in which those companies were wanting to be partners of some kind.

Re: Volkswagen invests up to $5B in Rivian

#43

Post by [deleted] »

londons_explore wrote: post #38
swores wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or even make it a full acquisition, but allow VW to remain a separate organisation with its own CEO and own board who answer to Apple's shareholders (and/or to the very top Apple execs) rather than to a separate group of shareholders? I.E. securing any future VW profits, and ensuring that the IP licensing deal is indefinite, while staying hands off and allowing VW to keep doing what they do with the exception of usin…

Unfortunately, with our current capitalistic system, it doesn't make sense to buy a company which has no intention to be as profitable as you are. Basically, shareholders expect you to invest all the cash in your stockpile for a similar percentage return (on average), and they won't want you to invest in a capital heavy but almost profitless industry like carmaking unless you think you can turn it into a business of…

[deleted]

Re: Volkswagen invests up to $5B in Rivian

#44

Post by numpad0 »

constantcrying wrote: post #12
peutetre wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe eventually they'll make Rivian a Volkswagen brand. They own many auto brands. As part of the joint venture with Rimac they gave Rimac the Bugatti brand: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bugatti_Rimac

>Maybe eventually they'll make Rivian a Volkswagen brand. That seems counter productive though, they seem to want Rivian tech. Usually their brands are managed centrally, so VW is developing platforms and architectures, which are then used by Skoda, Seat and Audio to make their models.

Car companies centrally develop platforms, but those platforms include a lot of third party components. It's not so strange as it sounds, just like motherboard manufacturers shipping boards with tons of third party chips.

So it makes sense if VW were to integrate couple Rivian parts into a platform. It won't be a one-side win nor loss.

Re: Volkswagen invests up to $5B in Rivian

#45

Post by constantcrying »

swores wrote: post #42
constantcrying wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VW has comparable revenue to Apple, 4 times the employees, twice the assets and triple the equity. Additionally it can only be bought by negotiating with a single family. No, apple can not buy VW. This idea is totally absurd.

If you look a few comments higher than mine, you'll see that the context of my comment and the one I replied to start from: > In another universe, I wonder [about Apple + VW joining forces] We're not speculating on what might happen tomorrow, just discussing hypotheticals for the scenario in which those companies were wanting to be partners of some kind.

Seems like a complete nightmare. A Californian software company and a German car maker, seems about as conflicting as possible.

Re: Volkswagen invests up to $5B in Rivian

#49

Post by jwr »

Reason077 wrote: post #37
constantcrying wrote: post #5

I also pointed this out in the other thread, but VW is currently building up a direct competitor to Rivian. VW themselves says they want the investment for the Software of Rivian, which also is somewhat curious.

> "VW themselves says they want the investment for the Software of Rivian, which also is somewhat curious." If you've ever driven a Volkswagen EV and compared their software experience to what the likes of Rivian, Tesla, and Polestar have, this will come as no surprise.

As a VW EV owner (ID.4), I can attest to this. The software is a burning dumpster fire, usability is terrible, the most common workflows break or simply never work, the car forgets even basic settings like whether you want to charge to 80% or 100%, and even the bare basics like the windows going predictably up when you press both "up" buttons sometimes fail (race conditions, apparently). It's an absolute disgrace.

I think any other vendor's software is better than this.

Re: Volkswagen invests up to $5B in Rivian

#50

Post by dagw »

lucianbr wrote: post #28
constantcrying wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you do instead? The VW processes for mechanical, manufacturing and mechatronics engineering seem to work reasonably well. How do you change the culture of such a large company, without breaking what works?

I expect people making tens of millions per year to figure it out. Are there no auto manufacturers with ok software? Presumably it's not impossible.

Are there no auto manufacturers with ok software?

The only in house auto software people don't seem to completely hate is Tesla.

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